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View Diary: Israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing in southern Lebanon [w/update] (205 comments)

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  •  Hard to argue with this logic (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blueness

    but the Hizb'allah is using human shields.  I wish things could be more sanitary and clear-cut, but war isn't like that.  Hizb'allah doesn't negotiate, they refuse to participate in Lebanese society, they're intent on setting up a theocratic state.  They aren't amenable to negotiation, and never were.

    People are usually more convinced by reasons they discovered themselves than by those found by others.

    by BlaiseP on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 01:15:25 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Ummmm... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      weirdscenes, anonymousredvest18

      Hezbollah is part of the ruling government of Lebanon.  They also provide a variety of social services in southern Lebanon.

      •  um, no. (0+ / 0-)

        If they were, they would have disarmed according to 1559.  Hariri warned of all this before his murder.

        People are usually more convinced by reasons they discovered themselves than by those found by others.

        by BlaiseP on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 01:24:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You complained about research above (3+ / 0-)

          Council on Foreign Relations

          Does Hezbollah play an active role in the Lebanese politics?
          Yes. After the 2005 elections, Hezbollah won eight new seats, giving the group twenty-three seats in the 128-member Lebanese Parliament. In addition, Hezbollah has two ministers in the government, and a third is endorsed by the group.
          Hezbollah did not disarm when it entered Lebanese politics, and experts say the group's new political involvement is not an indication that the group is becoming more moderate.

          Non-enforcement of UN 1559 does not mean that Hezbollah is not part of the Lebanese government, nor does the last paragraph excerpted above.

          •  Hizb'allah is a rogue state within a state (1+ / 0-)
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            blueness

            and their aim is the establishment of a theocracy.  Hizb'allah, like the IRA in Ireland, is by no means one thing.  It has Iran's pasdaran, Syrian stooges, and a certain amount of organic support, but it has no desire or inclination to participate in 1559.

            People are usually more convinced by reasons they discovered themselves than by those found by others.

            by BlaiseP on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 01:40:00 PM PDT

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            •  That is not relevant to their role in the state (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              weirdscenes, anonymousredvest18

              You can call them what you want in terms of their status in the Lebanese state, but the fact remains that they have severel members of parliament and two ministers.  By definition, Hezbollah is a part of the Lebanese government and does, in fact, participate in Lebanese society.  Whether or not you or I approve of that participation, it is still a fact.  Additionally, Hezbollah is more or less the only provider of state services in southern Lebanon.  Again, this is separate from one's opinion of Hezbollah's politics and methods.  It is simply a fact.

              •  I gather, based on this opinion (0+ / 0-)

                I must also grant a measure of legitimacy to Bush's war in Iraq because, after all, he got elected.

                People are usually more convinced by reasons they discovered themselves than by those found by others.

                by BlaiseP on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 02:01:14 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  No (3+ / 0-)

                  I wrote nothing about the legitimacy of Hezbollah's military actions, nor for that matter anything indicating a view on Hezbollah's political legitimacy.

                  You wrote abvoe:

                  Hizb'allah doesn't negotiate, they refuse to participate in Lebanese society, they're intent on setting up a theocratic state.

                  As indicated by the information from CFR among other easily found sources, the second clause in your statement is demonstrably false.  That is all I was pointing out.  Claiming that Hezbollah does not participate in Lebanese society contrary to factual information is distinct from a discussion of Hezbollah's political, military, and moral legitimacy.

            •  So you are saying that there were (1+ / 0-)
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              anonymousredvest18

              no christians in southern lebanon?

              Will America survive 30 more months of a Bushco Administration? Bushco changing hearts and minds everyday!

              by mattes on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 02:04:59 PM PDT

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              •  (savage laughter) (0+ / 0-)

                The Christians of South Lebanon and the Hizb'allah have become odd bedfellows, politically.  But make no mistake, the Hizb'allah areas are run like Iran, according to Shii rules.

                People are usually more convinced by reasons they discovered themselves than by those found by others.

                by BlaiseP on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 02:11:32 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  If they were using human shields (5+ / 0-)
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      Kaya, weasel, mattes, anonymousredvest18, Eiron

      If Hizbollah was using human shields, they wouldn't be letting the civilian population leave, would they?  But in fact, from every report I've seen, the Hizbollah-controlled areas are precisely the areas from which the most people have been fleeing, because they know they're in danger.

      Hizbollah is an extremist organization which has used terror, but that doesn't make them guilty of every crime known to humanity.

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