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View Diary: KS-Gov, AG: Sebelius leads Dem surge (274 comments)

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  •  Wow (0+ / 0-)

    I am so surprised to hear Kos say this.  

    I love Sebelius, and I'd love to see her on the ticket in the future.  But I definitely think 2008 is the most important race the Democrats have ever run and to weaken the ticket with a female in the Veep slot is just too risky.

    We will most likely still be at war in 2008.  I'm not sure America is ready to elect a female under the best of circumstances, but under these conditions I think this could be disastrous.  

    Do I feel this way?  Absolutely not.  But I do think the majority of the country would not react well to a female in office during a time of war.

    "But your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore"--Prine Pay attention Georgie - 2550+ dead Americans. Jesus Christ, make it stop already.

    by Miss Blue on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 11:39:32 AM PDT

    •  We DEFINITELY need a woman and/or a racial (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pucknomad, jedinecny

      minority on the ticket in 2008. All this running two rich white guys is for the birds. We have to define the identity of the party.

    •  Risky not to (6+ / 0-)

      First, I predict the republicans are going to run a woman on the ticket in 2008. I think it will be Condoleezza Rice. I think their strategy will be to deflect negatives away from their nominee and their party's policies this way. The talk will be about her being a woman or her being the first black woman — and try to invoke their "Party of Lincoln" tactic.

      Second, which war do you write of?

      •  I think you give the republicans too much (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sj, Miss Blue

        credit and sensibility.  No way these racist, sexist, power-hungry jerks are going to let a black 'girl' run for president.  Even if it is Condi.  Their minds just could not cope with such a paradigm shift.  Not only that, but they would risk alienating their base in a big way.

        "Silflay hraka u embleer rah!" --Bigwig

        by Reepicheep on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 12:03:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Hillary defense plan (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Miss Blue

          I think running Rice on the ticket as VP may be the republicans strategy if Hillary Clinton is the Democratic nominee. If Clinton some how manages to snooker the early primary voters to get the early lead, watch the republicans answer with a woman on the ticket for the VP slot. The moderate and corporate republicans want Clinton to run 2008, but the republians will need to counter her with another woman on their ticket.

          •  If it's a woman, and the R's don't lose the Sen. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Magnifico

            If it's a woman and the Republicans don't lose the Senate in '06 then Liddy Dole might get selected.  She has a lot of things on her resume that look good (Red Cross) and she seems to fit the attack dog role better than Condi would (the Republicans first rule in the modern era is that the VP must serve as the attack dog, which is why Dan Quayle was less of a liability than he seemed in '92 from political terms).  Other candidates to keep an eye on include Kay Bailey Hutchinson, or possibly Jodi Rell (in the unlikely event that the Republicans want to try to make the Dems play defense in New England).  But Condi just doesn't bring enough to the table (not an attack dog, no geographical advantage, never run in an election, Bush inside which will be important if McCain is the nominee and runs a "return to normalcy" type campaign, etc.).

            "An army of principles can penetrate where an army of soldiers cannot." - Thomas Paine

            by Mister Gloom on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 03:14:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Are the WASPs really going to let Condi run? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Miss Blue

          Realpolitik

          I feel like we don't really know what's going on amongst the movers and shakers of the GOP.

          I think about this with the fall of Tom Delay.  I know it's popular to think it's the legal troubles, but I ain't buying that the old line GOP establishment didn't think it could protect Delay and keep him in power.

          Given that assumption, and we are seeing a split of egos or something in the upper echelons, Condi may be allowed to run.

          Otherwise, we ain't going to see a Black woman at the head of that Party's ticket in my children's lifetime -- too many Cigar smoking CEO's and tire-kicken good 'ol boys who only see black women working in kitchens, when they actually go into kitchens.

          I'm just sayin...

          •  Chevron Oil Tanker Condoleezza Rice (0+ / 0-)

            From OpenSecrets:

            What’s a girl gotta do to get a 130,000-ton oil tanker named after her? Ask Condi Rice. She so charmed Chevron’s board of directors that they named one of the company’s tankers after her. In addition to sitting on Chevron’s board, Rice was also a director at two other multinationals—brokerage firm Charles Schwab and insurance company Transamerica Corp.

            Rice is corporate America. The republicans need her. She provides them cover for their harmful policies.

            •  I agree partialy... (0+ / 0-)

              Rice is corporate America. The republicans need her. She provides them cover for their harmful policies.

              Good point.  I can see that.

              However.  This is a woman who, if I remember correctly, wanted to be the next commissioner of the NFL until drafted by GB II.  Given her background I think she is her own woman.

              I think the behavior we see in her now is more of a sycophant, and not of a puppet.

              As THE executive, I think she'd want to be The Executive.

              And that's where I part ways here, I think.

              The first time she doesn't say "Thanks for naming the tanker after me boys.  Now what can I do for you..." the money for her campaign will go to another WASP.

        •  No, they'll rationalize Condi running... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Magnifico

          ....by saying she's not one of "them".  

          (By them, of course, I mean one of those radical uppity n-words.  That's what they fear - Jesse Jackson, Maxine Waters, Barack Obama, and other people who just don't know their place!  

          Same for gubernatorial candidates Ken Blackwell and Lynn Swann, and Senate candidates Steele and Florida's new candidate, ALAN KEYES!)

          9-11 changed everything? Well, Katrina changed it back.

          by varro on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 12:58:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  My thoughts on Condi running (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mainely49, Magnifico

            Not that anybody cares...

            My thought on Condi is that she will run and get a LOT of positive publicity from the Corporate Media.  Every Republican talking head out there will be gushing, “See, we’re not racist and sexist, we have a woman running for president, and she's black!  And, look here, the librul New York Times says that she is a first tier contender with McCain, Giuliani, Frist, Allen and Hagel.  See, see, we’re not racists!”

            She will run in a few primaries and finish in 3rd or 4th place a few times and the Corporate Media will orgasm over her 8-10% showings before she drops out of her “historic” run for president.  (the media will conveniently forget Carol Moseley Braun...)

            She is NOT a serious contender, however.  It is part of a long-term GOP strategy to siphon off a few points of the African American vote here and there, like the gay marriage issue in 2004.  The powers that be in the GOP know that those poor, rural white southerners that vote GOP because of moral values would either stay home, or vote Democrat, if a single black woman was on the ticket.

      •  Pick one. (0+ / 0-)

        We have several - it's a multiple choice question.  And it proves my point.

        I just don't think America will put a woman in charge in a time of war.  Frankly, I don't think we'd do it if all was peaches and cream, but now, with half the freakin planet ready to blow, no way.

        "But your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore"--Prine Pay attention Georgie - 2550+ dead Americans. Jesus Christ, make it stop already.

        by Miss Blue on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 12:28:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  It's Condi, for sure (0+ / 0-)

        That's why they keep pushing her into the forefront.  That's why she's in the ME right now.  She gets all the airtime these days (at least she can speak without smirking!).  

        I don't think the Repugs are so disturbed about race/gender--all they want is the loot!  If she's the way to do it, well, then, she's their gal.

        Remember, if the R's can get 10-20% of the Black vote, well, there's no tomorrow for the rest of us.  Not for at least one generation.  And they'll do anything to make that happen.  Well, not anything--not providing health care for children or the elderly, or public education.  

        But they will certainly stand behind Condi if it means they still are able to suck from the trough (how the heck do you spell that work, anyway???_

        "Do your best, and keep your sense of humor."--My Mom

        by mainely49 on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 01:46:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  not going to happen (0+ / 0-)

        >>First, I predict the republicans are going to run a woman on the ticket in 2008. I think it will be Condoleezza Rice.<<</p>

        Would you be willing to bet on it?  She's part of the face of the Iraq war, a Bush insider (the Republicans biggest hope in '08 is to make everyone forget Bush), has never run in an election before, and offers little geographical advantage.

        More damaging yet is the fact that she isn't an attack dog as every Republican campaign has their VP for an attack dog:

        1. Agnew
        1. Dole
        1. Bush Sr. (remember his debate with Ferraro, albeit he was more a "statesman" than the ones before)
        1. Quayle
        1. Chaney (both an attack dog and a statemen to calm fears about Bush's lack of foreign policy experience in 2000).

        She hasn't show the killer instinct that the previous 5 have.  So there is very, very little chance that the Republicans pick her for VP.  And Cabinet secretaries just don't make the leap to Presidential nominee, especially when they've never been a candidate before.

        "An army of principles can penetrate where an army of soldiers cannot." - Thomas Paine

        by Mister Gloom on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 03:05:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  WOW (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SecondComing

      "to weaken the ticket with a female in the Veep slot is just too risky."

      If a man said this, he would rightly be called a sexist.  

      •  I agree. (0+ / 0-)

        It is sexist.  No question.  And as a female, it pains me greatly to think it HAS to be said, in 2006, in America.  But that's the way I see this country.  

        "But your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore"--Prine Pay attention Georgie - 2550+ dead Americans. Jesus Christ, make it stop already.

        by Miss Blue on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 12:25:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Not the smartest statement... (0+ / 0-)

        I agree with poster's above.

        I'd vote for her at the top of the ticket.  And in reality, the last President who was also a Senator was what, Ford?  And he came in through succession.

        Governors are the one's who have a grasp on Executive campaigns.  She'd make a great Presidential candidate, and I'd love to see her try to take what she did in Kansas to the voters of America.

        She did it there, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt that she can do it across America.

        That said, 2008 is too soon, sadly -- I agree with those who say we need her in Kansas.

        I do hope she is being groomed for the top of the ticket.

      •  The comment isn't what the poster (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Miss Blue, Magnifico

        believes- I think- but what she feels that voters will believe. I don't necessarily agree with it, but the argument isn't sexist.

        Fear is not a winning strategy.

        by bruh1 on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 12:39:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Absolutely. (0+ / 0-)

          Providing the topic of gender up for discussion isn'r sexist. Those voting against her based on her lacking certain parts, that part is the sexist part.

          I for one think Sebelius'd do great things!

          The "middle of the road" is where the chickens get run over.
          -8.13, -4.15

          by Eddie in ME on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 01:09:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  yes, it really is sexist (0+ / 0-)

          sorry, no fighting spirit today and not in the mood to argue, but it really is sexist.  Perhaps someone else will come along and explain why.

          •  not interested in hearing an explaination (0+ / 0-)

            basically by your way of thinking and theirs- the mere mention of the reality that some other people are racists, or homophobic or sexists means the messenger are those things. she saying it will be tougher- on that neither you or anyone else who wants a woman to seriously win should deny the thinking of what voters believe. does that mean we shouldn't try? no, but saying that say harold ford shouldnt realize race will be a factor in his efforts to become a senator is a dangerous thing. denying reality doesn't make it any less real. admitting to it doesn't mean you can't change it.

            Fear is not a winning strategy.

            by bruh1 on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 03:04:47 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  That's playing not to lose... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      retLT

      ...are you in Bob Schrum's office?

      Sebelius is one of the better governors in the U.S. (Point 1) and she has helped smack down the knuckle-dragging Rethugs, especially on evolution (Point 2).

      Let the best people rise to the top in 2008.  I don't want safe, hedged-bet picks for VP like Lieberman (choke, gag, puke) that won't work anyway.  I want a masterful, aggressive VP candidate who will complement the nominee and articulate his/her policies on the campaign trail, not a milquetoast cowtowing to the Rethug's conservative hitperson.

      9-11 changed everything? Well, Katrina changed it back.

      by varro on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 12:52:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Feingold (0+ / 0-)

        I"ve been pushing Feingold for 3 years, so I'm hardly in the playing-not-to-lose camp.

        This election is important.  A sense of reality is called for no matter how idealistic we are.

        I am a female.  You think I'm not aware of the sexist attitudes still in this country?  In fact, women are as bad as men when it comes to female Presidential candidates and the war thing.  

        You can spin almost anything these days, but it's pretty friggen hard to spin your gender.

        Most on this site are fairly enlightened and progressive.  Not so the majority of voters.  Christ, the Repubs made Kerry and Cleland look like wimps, what do you think they'd do to a female?

        I make an exception for Condi and Hilary, as I think they are viewed a little differently.  Hilary has other negatives as we're all aware, and I'd bet everything I own the Repubs wouldn't run Condi, unless Hilary was the Dem candidate.  And even then I think it's a longshot.

        Be aware I don't agree with this sexist notion - I just think it's a reality.

        "But your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore"--Prine Pay attention Georgie - 2550+ dead Americans. Jesus Christ, make it stop already.

        by Miss Blue on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 01:06:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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