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View Diary: The Passion of the Kos (303 comments)

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  •  You think the issues in the mideast (18+ / 0-)

    are unrelated to the political situation here?

    Support House Resolution 450

    by curmudgiana on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:10:09 PM PDT

    •  i don't think he's saying that (23+ / 0-)

      I think what he's saying is that on this site discussion of issues in the mideast are dwarfing discussions of the US political situation. His search chart seems to show pretty clearly that, other than Kos himself plugging along on the left-hand side of the page, this has become an I/P site, more than an elect-Democrats site.

      •  Kos has chosen to ignore the I/H situation (17+ / 0-)

        so it behaves like a weed, it keeps growing.  The problem is, this situation is one with the potential, as we can see here, to split the progressive wing of the Democratic party in half and set them at each others' throats, which is going to have a serious impact on the coming elections.

        This isn't something that can or should be ignored.  What it needs, is to be directed.

        Support House Resolution 450

        by curmudgiana on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:31:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  silence is telling (8+ / 0-)

          I would think that perhaps Markos' silence on the issue is itself a "direction."

          If he doesn't feel that posting 2000 I/P diaries is conducive to electing Democrats, why should we?

          •  I find his silence on this issue (5+ / 0-)

            very puzzling and troubling.

            "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." ~ Diderot

            by Bouwerie Boy on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:40:48 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It isn't troubling (21+ / 0-)

              It's a lose/lose situation to express an opinion on one side or the other or even to express a balance.
              There's too much focus on Kos as a figurehead, after all the positive press over Crashing the Gates it would be less than advantageous to throw it away on a few words that would be broadcast far and wide that Kos is a [whatever].

              Avoiding Theocracy at Home and Neo Cons Abroad

              by UniC on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:56:40 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  i find his silence eloquent (8+ / 0-)

              Kos is all about electing Democrats. If he thought saying something on the issue would serve to elect Democrats, he'd say it. The fact that he says nothing, says to me that nothing that can be said on the subject will serve to elect Democrats.

              •  This just shows... (9+ / 0-)

       compromised Democrats are when it comes to Israel/Palestine. On this issue, they trip over each other to out-Republican the Republicans and see who can be most bellicose and irrational in their "support" for "Israel" -- which, in fact, is support for a particularly insane band of right-wing ultra-nationalistic militarists who happen to be in control of the Israeli state but certainly aren't "Israel" and in fact are probably putting the country at greater risk of destruction than anything else.

                Kos keeps urging Dems to get serious about talking about security and protecting the US from terrorism so that Republicans lose their monopoly on this issue.  Well, my friends, if the US wants real security, it is going to have to utterly overhaul its Israeli policy, or we're going to be generating terrorists intent on our destruction for decades to come.  It's as simple as that.  If the diarist doesn't think this is a topic worthy of intense discussion on a political blog, then heaven help us.

                "When the intellectual history of this era is finally written, it will scarcely be believable." -- Noam Chomsky

                by scorponic on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 03:21:49 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'm with you! (2+ / 0-)

                  Since post WWII when the state of Israel was carved out of the Middle East to provide a safe haven for those that wanted a land of their own to avoid a future Holocaust, we have had nothing but increasing hatred and wars. I'm neither Arab nor Jew but I understand the issues on both sides. The answer will not be easy. But thousands of Jews in Israel are willing to try a two state (I/P) solution. Thousands of Palestinians are willing to do the same. They have the same problem we have in the USA that they still can not elect the right people into office who are dedicated to taking care of their own people by providing health, jobs, and a clean environment in which to raise their families.

                •  Just so (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  This is the issue I think should be addressed here - not necessarily the I/P/H conflict for its own sake but for its effect on the Democratic Party and the upcoming election.

                  It has certainly had a profound radicalizing effect on my own political convictions, and here I thought they had been quite radical enough!

                  Support House Resolution 450

                  by curmudgiana on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 05:29:52 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  In his opinion (8+ / 0-)

                and instead he's very focused on the Lieberman thing, which I get, but personally have less interest in than, say, what's going on in a variety of other races. This is kos's site, but much to his credit, he doesn't take control of the direction of conversations here. He's not the be-all-end-all of even what will or will not get democrats elected.

                The problem IMO is that this place has multiple purposes. One, the one stated by kos himself, is to get democrats elected. Another, though, and it has to do with the history of the site and the fact that we all get to direct the dialogue via diaries and the like, is discussing a variety of stuff that pertains to political and social goings on. If kos wanted to stop that and get us all focused only on the midterms, then he'd have to get rid of diaries or utterly change the rules.

                The stuff happening in Israel/Lebanon is a major world event with massive geopolitical consequences. To not discuss it here, because it doesn't pertain directly to the next election, would be massively short sighted, IMO. As a party and as individual progressives, we have to multitask, and being focused on the next election doesn't mean we shouldn't talk a whole lot about other major world events, or about political philosophy, or even about our pets, if we need to blow off some steam.

                Kos himself sometimes posts sports stuff, because it interests him. I don't read that stuff, because it doesn't interest me. No loss for either of us.

            •  Not silent (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              rgdurst, blueness


              Kos' explaination of why he's not addressing it.  Also, he wrote another diary (near July 17 I think) called "Clusterfuck" that addressed the situation.

              Woe to you, O land whose king is a child -- Ecclesiastes 10:16

              by middleagedhousewife on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 03:18:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Kos's post... (0+ / 0-)

                ...was one of the stupidest, silliest evasions anyone's ever written about that topic.

                "When the intellectual history of this era is finally written, it will scarcely be believable." -- Noam Chomsky

                by scorponic on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 03:24:03 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Uh (5+ / 0-)

                  It's not Kos's responsibility to dissect any news item, however big and relevant.  I don't believe he's trying to avoid a controversial issue either.  If he feels he has nothing relevant or insightful to write about the matter, I'd just as soon he not try.

                  Besides, we don't take our direction from him, no matter what the uninformed traditional media say.  They can say "DailyKos is strangely silent on I/H" but 1. They're wrong. and 2. Who cares?

                  Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.

                  by Cream Puff on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 03:32:22 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  It's one thing... (4+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    gong, hester, No Preference, Dvd Avins

           say "I have nothing intelligent to say about the conflict" and quite another to say, as he did, "there's no use talking about it because they are all just tribalists with ancient grudges and nothing will be solved until they want peace."  I could have little quarrel with the first statement, if that were his statement.  He made the latter statement, which is ridiculous horseshit.

                    "When the intellectual history of this era is finally written, it will scarcely be believable." -- Noam Chomsky

                    by scorponic on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 03:35:14 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  If he opined on this (2+ / 0-)
                      It might just start a new flame-war.  They've been ignited that way before.  I think he's figured that out.

                      In God we trust. All others must pay cash.

                      by yet another liberal on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 03:46:20 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Kos isn't afraid of flame-wars. (3+ / 0-)

                        He's initiated them with many a stupid or uninformed or deliberately provocative comment before (see his "women's studies set" jibe during the Pie Wars, et al.).  I think he probably intuitively, if not consciously, understands that the Dems are firmly set in their very pro-Israeli right-wing views and are not going to be moved on this issue, so it's not worth the flak from outside sources he would take if wrote anything other than the Schumer/Clinton line on the conflict (now adopted by Lamont, of all people).  In other words, the explanation he gave for not addressing it is pure horseshit and can't be genuine.  It's a rationalization for avoiding the topic because it is, as they say in New York, the third rail of US politics.  If we don't grab the third rail with both hands, however, we will never solve this country's own security problems.  I think the issues at stake are worth taking some flak over.  If he doesn't, I disagree but can respect it.  Just don't come up with bullshit evasions that can be taken apart in two seconds.

                        "When the intellectual history of this era is finally written, it will scarcely be believable." -- Noam Chomsky

                        by scorponic on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 03:54:14 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  you demonstrate his point perfectly (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Land of Enchantment

                      He made the latter statement, which is ridiculous horseshit.

                      You show exactly why kos isn't wading hip-deep into this intractable mess. Anything he says will be picked apart and viciously attacked by everyone.

                      Oh God, I haven't read your book; I'm sure it was divine
                      Especially the part where you turned water into wine

                      by nasarius on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 04:39:03 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Uh... (0+ / 0-)

                        ...I suggested one statement that wouldn't be "picked apart" -- i.e., "I'm not writing about it because I have nothing intelligent to say."  Hard to argue with that.  What he did choose to say, however, was patently ridiculous.  I don't see how this helps your argument.

                        "When the intellectual history of this era is finally written, it will scarcely be believable." -- Noam Chomsky

                        by scorponic on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 05:22:43 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  again (0+ / 0-)

                          What he did choose to say, however, was patently ridiculous.

                          Kos posts about this conflict one time, just to say he's not going to post about it. And even though it's a relatively bland and meaningless statement, you attack it. Which is exactly why Kos isn't writing about this.

                          Oh God, I haven't read your book; I'm sure it was divine
                          Especially the part where you turned water into wine

                          by nasarius on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 06:00:23 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  It wasn't a 'bland and meaningless' statement. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            No Preference

                            That's like saying the following statement is "bland and meaningless": "there's no use talking about the US invasion of Iraq, because humans have always fought each other and always will, and until they want peace, nothing you or I could say matters."  That statement is patently ridiculous, and precisely analogous to Kos's statement about the Israel/Lebanon conflict.

                            By your logic, anytime Kos posts something that a significant number of people take issue with, then he shouldn't discuss it.  Bizarre line of reasoning.

                            "When the intellectual history of this era is finally written, it will scarcely be believable." -- Noam Chomsky

                            by scorponic on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 06:21:54 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

            •  Troubling? Why? (4+ / 0-)

              He's NOT the great Kos and when something happens in the world... however horrific... there's not, and shouldn't be, a great CLAMORING for what Kos thinks.

              His great passion, right now, is Lamont, so that's what he blogs about.

              Daily Kos, the website, is here for the rest of us to blog about what WE are passionate about.

              Nothing troubling here.

              •  I'm sorry I did not address this before. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Land of Enchantment

                Jeff, I don't expect Kos to weigh in on L/I/P. That would be suicidal. But I do expect him to get more involved in redirecting and refocusing his community when it goes a little haywire from time to time.

                "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." ~ Diderot

                by Bouwerie Boy on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 07:07:43 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Kos Silence troubling (10+ / 0-)

              I find the lack of moral outrage over the Israerli attack on Lebanon very troubling.  We have to remember why we want to elect Democrats.  We don't want to elect Democrats just because they are our "team."  We want to elect them because we feel they represent humane values.  We think Democrats have stood up for the downtrodden in the past, while the Republicans have stood up for the wealthy and corporate interests.

              What Israel has been doing, and is still doing, in Lebanon is an affront to humane and progressive values.  Their bombing UN observers, Red Cross trucks, and apartments full of women and children refugees cannot be justified by any humane person, regardless of their race, religion, or views on "Zionism".

              The silence emanating from Daily Kos and the Democratic leadership and officeholders is outright hypocritical and reprehensible.

              If they are afraid to voice objections because of fear they will offend the Israeli lobby, and influential members of the Jewish community, then this is a party which has lost its moral conscience and its right to lead.

              We expect moral leadership from progressives and the Democratic party.  If we get cynical politics instead, and tolerance of war crimes because they are being done by a nation with close ties to members of an influential constituency in the Democratic power structure, then it really does not matter if the Republicans stay in power or not, because we only will be trading one group of cold-hearted and calculating politicians for another.

              "The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself."-FDR

              by Michigan Paul on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 03:45:45 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  hear hear (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                Support House Resolution 450

                by curmudgiana on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 05:34:10 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  I'm not looking to kos for 'leadership' (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                I'm just glad to be hanging at his house, talking with a bunch of people.

                This idea that Markos is the Leader of this site, to whom we gaze for guidance on the important issues of the day, is naive and misconstrues the nature and purpose of this community.

                I'm not hearing the "silence emanating from DailyKos" either. That is, if you're talking about the community as a whole. I see a steady stream of I/P/L diaries on the right side of the page, some which appear to simply want to share information, others which try to calm people down, others exploring some other related issue, or unique or personal viewpoint.

                Unfortunately, all too many are troll-authored, or written solely for incendiary purpose, perhaps because people are angry and want others to be angry too. Whatever, there's been little silence on these issues, a whole lot of noise, and relatively little important discussion. That this may be happening at the expense of other very pressing topics is what, I think, this diary is all about.

                Oh, you mean Markos' "silence"? I see nothing "reprehensible" about ducking comment: he made his statement, he's moved on, and he's under no obligation to go on record about anything, despite the numbers who clamor for an opinion. That's not his purpose here, not his role. The only leadership I expect from him is clear statements on site policy, software upgrades, and other meta-issues.

                If the criticism about Markos or the Front Pagers is that they haven't either 1) come down on your side, giving you bragging rights, or 2) come down against your view, affording an opportunity to rant, then, gee. I think he and they are being most wise.

                Pressuring Markos or the FPers with "concern" about "troubling" silence seems more like undermining things that helping them.

                I have to agree with the diarist, to an extent. I believe this site IS over-occupied, but I think a lot of it is being pushed currently by fairly transparent agents provocateur who are here, either new or emerging from a long sleep, to light fires and keep people angry, distracted, exasperated, insulted, frustrated, disgusted, and discouraged.

                It'll be interesting to see how long they attempt to keep it going, or whether this community can step away from redundant arguments and blatant instigations, and toward getting our government out of Republican hands.

                "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and then misapplying the wrong remedies." -- Groucho Marx

                by BobzCat on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 10:03:10 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  No the problem is (19+ / 0-)

          Those same 40 so people who choose to rehash the same inane arguments 4 times a day.  Just like the abortion diaries.  Some people choose to focus one thing and fuck the rest of the people here, fuck the fact that you need sympathetic politicians in place to get your issue taken care of, fuck the lack of any real action on behalf of the loudest people making this site bog down under their incessant repitition.

          "If it ain't blog, it's blah." - My husband ~ July 19, 2006

          by fabooj on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:56:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What do you know (0+ / 0-)

            about what posters here are doing, or trying to do, about this issue?

          •  Proof a small group is spamming us? (0+ / 0-)

            I will avoid naming names in this comment, but I have noticed a small group of new faces, appearing very, very frequently on I/P threads, and generating a very large proportion of not just diaries and comments (re I/P), but also ratings. Looking closely, I see some patterns of behavior that seem extreme and peculiar.

            I am aware of one person (let's call him User A) who has a very slim history here prior to 7/12 (when Israel invaded Lebanon), and who has posted roughly 1000 (!) comments since that time, virtually all in I/P diaries, and virtually all expressing the same talking points in an extremely repetitive manner. Given the table above showing roughly 20,000 comments regarding Israel in the last month, this one user might represent 1-5% of our entire I/P comment traffic. Pretty staggering, for one person.

            If it takes about 10 minutes (on average) to write one message, that means this person is spending about 60 hours a week spamming us with one-sided I/P comments.

            Somehow this person still has time left over to recommend comments. In the same period, this person has recommended over 1,000 comments.

            Speaking of recommending comments, I have noticed another person who seems to have a full-time job doing that (let's call him User B). This person has posted no diaries, and a relatively small number of comments. As far as I can tell, he first appeared here on 7/13. Since that time, he has recommended over 1,000 comments. I haven't checked every one, obviously, but a random sample seems to indicate that his reason for living is to recommend comments that are promoting a specific I/P agenda. If he (or it) is working an 8-hour day, that means it's taking him (on average) about 3 minutes to find a comment to recommend.

            And it's no surprise to notice that there is a great deal of overlap between the activities of User A and User B. In other words, a very large portion of User A's comments are recommended by User B. Interesting how that works.

            Obviously it was fairly tedious to figure this out. I have a strong feeling that a real database analysis done by someone with admin privileges would find a similar pattern with other new users.

            Let's not let anyone hijack Kos, for any reason.

            I realize that wild speculation is unwelcome, but I can't help but wonder if some of these folks are sent here by a certain pudgy fellow. We have grown to be a very real force, and certain powerful people are noticing.

            Here's an alternate explanation. Long-time partisans on this issue have noticed an attractive opportunity to address a large new audience.

            Those two explanations are not mutually exclusive.

        •  Disagree (5+ / 0-)

          The diarist's points about our focus are well taken. It would be much better for all included - including everyone on the Middle East! - if the Democrats win the midterms and take back congress.

          But I don't think repressing this discussion does any good. It's going to come out anyway, and it's what people are really feeling. This may be the only place a real discussion by knowledgeable people on all sides of the issue can actually take place.

          We have to talk this out NOW, to understand where each other are coming from, and develop useful directions for action that do not ignore this situation because it can be difficult to deal with.

          "Think. It ain't illegal yet." - George Clinton

          by jbeach on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:59:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It isn't going to be settled here (8+ / 0-)

            Though it is relevant, because the Bush Administration has adopted a policy that some of us like, and others of us do not.  So I'm not sure about talking it out.

            I've spent time in a some of those diaries.  From time to time, when I'm thinking about responding to a comment, I'll check the users comment history.  In numerous cases I've found users who have had 99+% of their comments (often hundreds of comments, too) on that topic and no other.

            I tend to avoid responding to them, or else point out the comment history, and suggest that they might consider giving some attention to other topics related to this site's purpose.  (10% of their comments, or something?)

            I also think we should keep in mind that this is a wedge issue that people who are against us in the fall (Rove et al.) would be quite willing and able to manipulate to sabotage our efforts.  Thus, vigilance and some self-restraint are indeed in order.

        •  Wait a minute: (11+ / 0-)

          Kos has chosen to ignore the I/H situation so it behaves like a weed, it keeps growing.

          If Kos addressed it and took some sort of policy position that would somehow quiet things?  Um NO.  

          What it needs, is to be directed.

          Um here is the thing... People here are asked to be self determined in their thinking, their choices, and their disgression.

          What is happening is that there is a significant conflict unfolding before peoples' eyes that is pretty threatening for lots of people for lots of different reasons.  The implications and impacts of this conflict are many and varied.

          We may joke about Kos sending "directives" because some idiot pundit implied that he did, but that isn't how it works at all.  In fact, a big old directive probably would start the pie war of all pie wars.

          But more importantly, it is up to each individual in the community to make some of the distinctions that Bowerie Boy set forth in his diary about what you recommend, read, write and comment in.  

          Hopefully people care about changing our regime as much as they care about changing others or staying the hell out of others.  But to ask Kos to make some sweeping directive is unfair particularly when we are talking about an issue as complicated as the Middle East conflicts.

        •  The problem (3+ / 0-)

          this situation is one with the potential, as we can see here, to split the progressive wing of the Democratic party in half and set them at each others' throats

          Why do you think it's leading every media outlet.

          The lone and level sands stretch far away. -Shelly

          by justme on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 04:31:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  But what should we, as progressives, (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            anonymousredvest18, kraant

            and those of us who are progressive Democrats, DO about it?

            Support House Resolution 450

            by curmudgiana on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 05:32:42 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The same thing we always do, Pinky, (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              anonymousredvest18, kraant

              Try to take over -cough, cough-

              Have rational, meaningful debate that produces a reasonable and effective action.

              Not freak out and start flaying each other for having differing opinions.

              Respect the position of those who don't see the situation exactly the same, even if we don't agree.

              Inject some sanity back into the debate.

              Break out the Endust and shiny-up that reality-base.

              The lone and level sands stretch far away. -Shelly

              by justme on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 08:14:23 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That's perhaps a tad bit indefinite (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                anonymousredvest18, lotlizard

                Look at the Front Page here, where Kos is pushing hard for Lamont.  This is definitely an anti-Lieberman site. It's clear that the goal of electing Democrats does NOT include Joementum.

                This is leadership.  We know where Kos stands.

                But I hear Lamont parroting AIPAC talking points, and I won't go there.  To me, Lamont and Lieberman might as well be one and the same. Unacceptable. Almost every Democratic member of Congress.  Unacceptable.

                How many other Kossacks feel the same way?  And what does the leadership here have to say to us?

                I'm looking for candidates to support, candidates who have stood up and said NO to AIPAC.  I thought this would be a good place to find them.  They might as well be Democrats.

                People will talk the mideast war to death around here, but there is very little addressing this very relevant issue of the effect on the Democratic Party and its candidates.

                Support House Resolution 450

                by curmudgiana on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 09:07:04 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  there IS no leadership here (0+ / 0-)

                  it's a forum run by a guy. You are free to feel, think, write about what you want hindered only by a handful of community standards and troll ratings.

                  Blogatha! The political, the personal. Not necessarily in that order.

                  by ksh01 on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 10:30:50 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  Bingo! n/t (0+ / 0-)

          "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." ~ Diderot

          by Bouwerie Boy on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 05:21:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Where did I get the idea (0+ / 0-)

        that it was a progressive site?

      •  This is false (0+ / 0-)

        In fact, I remember remarking to myself about there being too many Lieberman / Lamont diaries being written here.

        I have a distinct feeling that this chart is inaccurate and I know that the rec'd diaries have not been eclipsed by the IP issues.

    •  Read the whole diary (23+ / 0-)

      Now, I fully understand that the catastrophe and carnage unfolding in Lebanon is partially a reflection of the foreign policy failures and ineptitude of the Bush Administration and I am not suggesting that all discussion of this terrible crisis be abandoned. However, given the astonishing number of diaries and comments already posted, it does seem reasonable to expect members here to...

      Emphasis added for, um, emphasis.

      O it is excellent to have a giant's strength: but it is tyrannous to use it like a giant. --Measure for Measure, II.2

      by RogueStage on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:25:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not at all but (14+ / 0-)

      this has become overkill don't you think?

      "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." ~ Diderot

      by Bouwerie Boy on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:27:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't think 50 more diaries on I/P/L (32+ / 0-)

        are going to suddenly cause an outbreak of peace, however, a lot more diaries on candidates and campaigns and strategies can cause some results. It would be nice to be able to focus on that.

        Of course, a lot of people are very personally and emotionally involved in this crisis, so I do understand why people keep writing about it.

        We must disenthrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country. Fellow-citizens, we cannot escape history. - Abraham Lincoln

        by Buffalo Girl on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:33:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Exactly right (3+ / 0-)

          For a politically aware person not to have a view on this issue -- even a muddled and conflicted view indicating a recognition of the rights and wrongs on both sides -- would be strange.  This is big stuff.  When the world history of 2006 is written, this is one of the top stories.  So I don't begrudge people writing or commenting in diaries.  Many of us use this place as a sort of forum to work out our thoughts and feelings with others, which is, I think, actually pretty wonderful.

          That said, for a politically aware person not to choose to express a view on this issue is perfectly fine.  That goes for Kos as well as for any of us.

          So I take this in the spirit of reminding us that we not lose sight of the important events looming before us, rather than suggesting that the topic is not appropriate for debate because there are other fish to fry.  One should just strive (1) not to devote less effort to other topics because of time spent on this one, and (2) not to hate people here who disagree with one over even such a critical issue.  Frankly, when push comes to shove, I'd much rather see policy on this issue made as a result of a debate among Democrats than Republicans.  We can all sign on to that.

          My apologies to students who took my U.S. Government class in the 90s: evidently the Constitution doesn't limit Presidential power after all. Who knew?

          by Major Danby on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 05:13:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  That is one of the distinctive (11+ / 0-)

        characteristics of this place (and many others) -- topic du jour. Although for some topics it's topic du jour, du jour, du jour...

        How many diaries have I seen complaining about the community beating a dead horse? Well, I don't have an exact number, but it happens often enough that I know it's well more than my total number of fingers and toes.

        Calling for a stop of it is useless. The diaries are, in essence, personal turf (call it a rental of diary space since the landlord has the option of evicting you if you put up some ghastly curtains). Since Kos has (wisely) remained generally circumspect about interfering with diary topics, requesting that people write or not write about a particular topic generally doesn't always go over big. (I expect to see a demand/request to can it on all of the Mel diaries any minute now.)

        You do bring up a good point about the focus. But, IMHO, Kos and the frontpagers have been in focus. It may slant Lieberman but that has more to do with the primary happening next week.  

        I expect, after DumpLiebermania dies down next week, we will see an increased focus (kos- Pombo, we need to slam this guy hard). As to Lieberman - The jerk better withdraw if he loses, or I swear...

        Nature of the beast. Beat a topic until you've wrung everything you can from it. While I agree that I/P/L is dominating the site these days I have noticed a slight drop-off. The rec list is covered in a range of topics instead of one. As long as something this important is going on I'd expect the frequency of conversation and diaries about it will remain high. It's in the news. (Like Mel.)

        I suspect it will be easier for the site to devote a real focus on the elections after Labor Day. I have to admit, in real life (as opposed to political geek life) I usually don't pay attention to elections until late September, early October. Summertime politics? Not usually on my radar. But, as I said, I'm a geek. ;)

        "As you get older, you get less willing to buy the latest version of reality." Leonard Cohen

        by mentaldebris on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 03:13:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Over kill in every way. (3+ / 0-)

        Good job BB.  Focus on the election is absolutely vital.  The world will have until it ends to try to sort out "sustainable peace" in the ME.  Changing the face in Congress is a step in the right direction, rather the correct direction.  We need to be doing that now.

      •  I'm not sure this is a zero-sum proposition, (4+ / 0-)

        and because it is a breaking news situation its salience is increased.  But more than that, the US, and its foreign policy, are deeply implicated, including the US relationship with Iraq --also a very hot topic around here.

        I agree that other topics are very important, and should be diaried and commented upon.  I do think, however, that politics is about both foreign and domestic policy.

        Defend the Fourth Amendment And the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1985 from all barbarians, foreign and domestic...

        by Fasaha on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 04:21:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  here (0+ / 0-)

        or in the Middle East?

        Unfortunate metaphor bro.

    •  no, he addressed that issue (2+ / 0-)

      Now, I fully understand that the catastrophe and carnage unfolding in Lebanon is partially a reflection of the foreign policy failures and ineptitude of the Bush Administration and I am not suggesting that all discussion of this terrible crisis be abandoned.

      you may have missed it?

    •  They are related: AS A DISTRACTION (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Land of Enchantment

      The timing is designed to distract from the election and the just-as-immoral war in Iraq.


      This space intentionally left blank.

      by BentLiberal on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 05:51:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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