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View Diary: Pro-Murtha rally drowns out swiftboating tactics! (209 comments)

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    •  that should have been just 'stood up' n/t (6+ / 0-)

      May you live in interesting times. Ancient Chinese curse

      by 4Freedom on Thu Aug 03, 2006 at 01:45:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Great video that shows their obsurdity... (18+ / 0-)

      here. An enteraining uncovering of the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth.

      •  You beat me... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ilona, ZappoDave

        to it ilona, was just gonna post this up!!;c}

        "You Wave the Flag, Now Show the Veterans the Services"

        by jimstaro on Thu Aug 03, 2006 at 04:23:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  What video (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        did you see? The one I watched with the blond reporter was "balanced" and seemed to give more air time to the liars. There was no indication that the pro-Murtha forces turned out about ten times as many supporters.

        •  The video that I linked to in my comment... (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          javelina, peraspera, jimstaro, dale peters

          Not the one in the diary.

          •  Have... (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ilona, dale peters, Thundergod

            Major Bobby Hanafin's Blog posting about the 'Swifties and ChickenHawks' from Veterans For America just upthread, ilona, if you missed it.

            "You Wave the Flag, Now Show the Veterans the Services"

            by jimstaro on Thu Aug 03, 2006 at 05:01:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Thanks, Jim! n/t (1+ / 0-)
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            •  Bobby is a x major and has a son in Iraq (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              peraspera, jimstaro, Thundergod, Do Tell

              Bobby is a friend and bother his son does not talk to him for his anti war stand

              •  He Will... (4+ / 0-)

                Once he understands, you can bet on that!!

                "You Wave the Flag, Now Show the Veterans the Services"

                by jimstaro on Thu Aug 03, 2006 at 05:39:58 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Your right (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  We in the military are just unguided and don't know any better.  That is insulting to those of us who care enough to serve our country.

                  I would be ashamed if my parents made a big media circus being anti-war or even worse "honored" my memory Cindy Sheehan style.  99% of the "Anti-War" crowd... when you boil down their message is Anti-Military. To have a parent slap my sacrifice and the sacrifices my friends have made (sometimes with their lives) would be pretty disheartening.  I'd love to see how things in the world go when we "Dismantle the War Machine" as requested by the Students Against War protesters at UCSC.  Or what will happen if people start following Cindy Sheehan's new book about why not to join the military.                                                                                                
                  I may not believe in what started this war, but I believe in my country and I will go to hell in back for my friends and fellow soldiers.  Cindy Sheehan, ANSWER, SAW, Code Pink, and <insert radical, niave anti-war group who will never understand and thinks appeasing the worlds terrorists will make everything better... here> can all go screw themselves.  My opinions of people who sell out your family (and the military is a big family) for political gain is dispicable.  Those Marines, if guilty, will get punished, but Murtha harmed us all by spouting off his mouth.  I watched him on TV (from Iraq) and was very dissapointed in him.  Is doing the right thing for the wrong reasons any more honorable than doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.  I'm all about intent and his intent was to help himself be the next house majority leader.  Makes we want to move back to PA so I can vote for someone else... anyone else.

                  "You can prevent defeat through defense, but to prevail requires offense" -Sun Tzu

                  by Captain Infidel on Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 04:49:44 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  To be 'at home' in the military (5+ / 0-)

                    is not the same thing as being in a healthy family.  Truly healthy families--like healthy democracies--can tolerate difference and survive.

                    Your comment illustrates the difficulty of talking about the well-being of the individuals who make up an institution dedicated to violence, death, and destruction. The military is an odd thing; it is an inhuman tool that uses rock-hard force to achieve political aims, but it is composed of soft-fleshed human beings.  

                    What happens to those soft-fleshed human beings when the political aims espoused by the distant, elite war-mongers are unwise, ill-advised, or immoral?  More often than not, the individual soldiers, seamen, airmen, and marines become cannon-fodder for the insatiable folly  and hubris of the politicians. Just by the nature of the enterprise, at some level, the welfare of the humans that comprise the military does not matter to the politicians.

                    Enter Murtha.  I do not know his motivations, but I hear his words.  His words speak against the madness of this war and in support, therefore, for the soft-fleshed humans who are being asked to fight it.

                    It seems to me that what he is offering is the ultimate support for the troops--stand them down because standing up is madness all the way around. Murtha does not sell out "the family" when he tells the truth.  Quite the opposite: he does it a favor.  

                    A family that cannot handle the truth is dysfunctional.

                    •  Clarification (0+ / 0-)

                      Murtha does not sell out "the family" when he tells the truth.  Quite the opposite: he does it a favor.

                      My problems with Murtha is twofold.  Neither has to do with his call for a troop pullout.  First I say if you want to bash current policies, come up with a viable solution.  In the Army we don't go to our boss with problems unless we have a plan or ideas on how to fix it.  Basing the GWOT fight out of Japan is NOT a realistic option.  This shows me he cares more about bashing the other side and promoting himself than anythging else.

                      My second problem has to do with his public 'announcement' of the guilt of the Haditha Marines before an investigation was completed.  How long ago was that?  The investigation is STILL not complete... yet to America, and more importantly it's enemies, those Marines are now guilty until proven innocent.  They deserve due process like any other U.S. Citizen and if guilty, they deserve to be punished severely.

                      "You can prevent defeat through defense, but to prevail requires offense" -Sun Tzu

                      by Captain Infidel on Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 12:18:16 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Fair enough on your second problem with Murtha, (0+ / 0-)

                        but not on your first.  There is indeed a place for criticism of a policy or strategy that is clearly not working without having to have an alternative.  This is especially true if the policy makers are blind to the inadequacy of their plans.  Often dealing with a problem begins by naming it.

                        But, follow your logic to its conclusion.  You wrote:

                        In the Army we don't go to our boss with problems unless we have a plan or ideas on how to fix it.

                         So, lets say that you were a kid in a unit patrolling the streets of Fallujah.  You saw one of your buddies rape and execute an Iraqi woman without provocation.  You believe that what you observed was illegal, but you don't know what to do about it.  

                        Would you go to your "boss" with this information--in spite of not knowing what to do?  Or, would you stay quiet?

                        Sometimes speaking up without having a clear sense of direction is what it takes to get a solution going.

                  •  Bullshit! (0+ / 0-)

                    "99% of the "Anti-War" crowd... when you boil down their message is Anti-Military."  What a load of crap!  I'm an army brat and I know an illegal occupation when I see one.  Grow a spine and realize the incompetent civilian leadership is responsible for this fiasco, not the military!

                    -6.63, -6.15 "We can not remain silent. We have met the enemy, and it is us." Trent Lott

                    by Staying Left on Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 11:52:20 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  That is such crap (0+ / 0-)

                    My grandfather was against Iraq and he served in the military himself and was in the navy so I guess my grandfather when he was a live (2004 was his last election he voted in and he voted for Kerry) was anti-military even though he gave his life to the military and worked for the government for a lot of his life and got awards from the government on his service.  You do a disrespect for speaking for other people other then yourself.  You should worry about speaking for yourself and your own experiences.  To claim to speak for someone else other then yourself is really quite immature.  And by appeasing to terrorist's you mean like when George Bush has let nobody be charged for the crime of 9/11 right?  And lied about Iraq and invaded their country based on lies and for their nutbag plans and ideals?  Oh and last I checked Murtha was going for the Whip which is actually second after the House leader.  So perhaps you should stay busy really reading what Murtha has said instead of being busy attacking him.  Oops.

        •  I concur - that was messed up! (7+ / 0-)

          Lead off with the Vets for Truth then announced their next rally saying there would be more vets there from all over the know, at their next one.

          I'm really ashamed to be an American sometimes, but most often that's the case whenever I'm exposed to news on TV.  And not to insult the navy vet who was given airtime, but to have one side represented by a man wearing a suit and tie, while the other a guy wearing a t-shirt...the psychological effect that has on the viewer is profound.  

          Now if the event went down like the author described here in this diary, how exactally would someone seeing it only on the news get that impression at all?  

          This was a textbook example of how editing can take an event and turn it into whatever the bosses wanted it to look like in the first place.  Free press in America is a myth.  

        •  how many anti-Murtha people did you see? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          I saw two. Both of them in suits, both speaking at a podium with silence in the background.

          As for pro-Murtha folks, we saw a large crowd in the camera's eye twice, plus the vet who spoke in good terms about Murtha was hard to understand because of the crowd's noise in the background.

          The reporter's attempt to be balanced just made more of a mockery of the failure that the liars experienced.

          Of course it hurts. You're being screwed by an Elephant.

          by Timroff on Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 12:13:16 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Wish I could have been there... (0+ / 0-)

            Many Anti-Murtha people are currently overseas right now.  Luckily we still get to vote.

            Some votes are not about political affiliations.  I used to love Murtha as one of the few democrats who understood the military... but even he has seen the lure of power/prestige go to his head.  You want to bash policy on the war/military... I used to say he is the man to do it... but you better come with a valid, working alternative.  If your not part of the solution, your part of the problem.  Yelling "it's broken" but not trying to fix is, is being part of the problem.  When Murtha said we should base our GWOT out of Japan, I almost fell out of my chair.  He so should have known how stupid and unrealistic that is... the fact that he didn't makes me wonder...

            "You can prevent defeat through defense, but to prevail requires offense" -Sun Tzu

            by Captain Infidel on Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 04:58:21 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Oh please (0+ / 0-)

              So I guess George Bush abusing the military and stretching them so thin with having two, three and sometimes four tours at once with no break isn't abuse of power right?  If Murtha wants to run for either the Whip or House leadership role for the democratic side that's his right as a Congressional member last time I checked and apparently the democrats in Congress vote and if they don't agree with Murtha then he is rejected as a having a leadership role.  Perhaps Murtha feels he can help get the soldiers home from Iraq if he has more vocal ability and can help set agendas.  And last time I checked Murtha DOES have a plan.  He says to redeploy in the region and not to totally abandon the area unlike some other democrats like Kerry and Feingold (which is actually what I am for quite honestly but I'm explaining Murtha's plan).  And perhaps since he has more military experience he does know what he's talking about.  He isn't known as the Pentagon's best friend for nothing.

        •  That is nothing new (0+ / 0-)

          They always do that.  

    •  Nothing but dirty tricks to fight Casey, Murtha ? (1+ / 0-)
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      In the Casey / Santorum race, you've got the GOP funding the Green candidate and claiming that Casey was endorsed by Al Jazeera!

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