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View Diary: Lebanon: George Galloway (UK MP) savages a Sky News interviewer (33 comments)

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  •  The thing is, (0+ / 0-)

    to the state of Israel, ten soldiers is not this significant. It's a minor poke with a pencil or something. There have been 110 or so Israeli soldiers killed in their "defensive measures" even.

    A more fitting analogy is if I went in your yard and stole your dog, so you burned down my new addition I built twenty years ago.

    You cannot depend upon American institutions to function without pressure. --MLK Jr.

    by Opakapaka on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 07:32:56 AM PDT

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    •  They aren't pieces on a chess board (0+ / 0-)

      They are servicemen defending their country. When a terrorist entity crosses the border, kills those servicemen, and kidnaps two more, they don't get to fulfill their hopes and dreams of a prisoner swap. They instigated war, they bear the lion's share of the blame for the resulting events. That's not to say Israel is given carte blanche--indeed, they have overreacted and caused unnecessary and often inexcusable deaths. However, but for Hizb'allah's act of aggression and the tacit approval/tolerance of Beirut, none of this is happening right now.

      W's First Veto: not for tax cuts for the rich, pork barrel spending and earmarks, or civil liberties violations, but for stem cell research.

      by Red Sox on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 08:00:14 AM PDT

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      •  But Israel's daily overflights (0+ / 0-)

        of Lebanese territory didn't instigate war, right? I agree, Hezbollah provoked, and Israel over-reacted. But I think Israel's over-reaction was the greater evil.

        You cannot depend upon American institutions to function without pressure. --MLK Jr.

        by Opakapaka on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 08:47:34 AM PDT

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        •  The overflights (0+ / 0-)

          and the largely ignored daily rocket fire from Lebanon were both acts of war that had little demonstrable effect on the relative populations. While we agree that Israel over-reacted, little contempt is expressed here for Hizb'allah's terrorism and instigation. It's as if their request for a "prisoner swap" was a wholly reasonable gambit.

          W's First Veto: not for tax cuts for the rich, pork barrel spending and earmarks, or civil liberties violations, but for stem cell research.

          by Red Sox on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 08:58:30 AM PDT

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          •  Apparently (0+ / 0-)

            they've been holding prisoners for swapping for years. This is how they do things. I think I've posted those quotes for you several times, about Israel having the policy of holding Lebanese prisoners for no reason other than to trade. So yeah, by Israel's own standard, this was wholly reasonable.

            You cannot depend upon American institutions to function without pressure. --MLK Jr.

            by Opakapaka on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 09:24:05 AM PDT

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            •  Holding prisoners (0+ / 0-)

              for no other reason than a future trade? As in they were kidnapped and stored for future use as bargaining chips? I'd like to see that link.

              So yeah, by Israel's own standard, this was wholly reasonable.

              And therein lies the moral turpitude behind the apologia for Hizb'allah.

              W's First Veto: not for tax cuts for the rich, pork barrel spending and earmarks, or civil liberties violations, but for stem cell research.

              by Red Sox on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 09:27:38 AM PDT

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              •  aoeu (0+ / 0-)

                Read the two blockquotes in this comment. Links are provided there, read the full articles for more info.

                You cannot depend upon American institutions to function without pressure. --MLK Jr.

                by Opakapaka on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 10:16:20 AM PDT

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                •  OK, I see the disconnect (0+ / 0-)

                  First, thanks for providing those links.

                  Second, there is a difference between taking hostages to gain a return of someone and taking hostages just for a future trade. That may not have been what you were seeking to communicate, but that's what I read in "[a]pparently they've been holding prisoners for swapping for years." Those prisoners were held for the return of downed airmen and other hostages/prisoners of war, not some future swap for soldiers-to-be-kidnapped-later.

                  That's not to excuse the practice--Israel is in the wrong for doing so, and it appears their Supreme Court said just that in one of the links you provided, ruling that at least one of the prisoners be released in the absence of a charge. But if Hizb'allah had returned airman Ron Arad or his remains, one can only imagine that they would have gotten most prisoners returned. Instead they escalated the conflict by incurring into Israel, killing and kidnapping people.

                  W's First Veto: not for tax cuts for the rich, pork barrel spending and earmarks, or civil liberties violations, but for stem cell research.

                  by Red Sox on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 10:57:12 AM PDT

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                  •  Sure. If Hez (0+ / 0-)

                    had given in. Why didn't Israel give in first? See, both sides are playing the same game. Then Israel gets sick of the game and starts a huge aerial bombardment campaign.

                    You cannot depend upon American institutions to function without pressure. --MLK Jr.

                    by Opakapaka on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 11:16:33 AM PDT

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