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View Diary: Crisis of faith, Britain. (100 comments)

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  •  Wrong (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LondonYank

    I just added two minorities in order to show that minorities havee been attacked here during our glorious history. Jews, muslims, gays, black people, asians people, catholics ( that i can approve, death to the Pope! ) and such.

    Is killing innocent people in Europe an Israeli policy? Or are you using empty rhetoric as usual to make your point? In the 60 years that Israel existed it only happend twice.

    Targeted killings is a policy. It can lead to "mistakes" and perhaps that's why there is the due process?

    And i doubt the nordic countries have killed Israelis that way?

    And yes , I think every reasonable person would support assassinating terrorists.

    No, it is a crime if there is no legal process. Killing is always risky and it is a judgement that cannot be taken back.

    even though most countries refused to accept them.

    True. I'm not sure how the US treated them after the war but they were not welcome in Europe. And one can't blame jewish people if they wanted to go somewhere where they could be more safe.

    And hey , didn't your country side with the Nazis in WW2? Why did enlightend fins such as yourselves sided with the most evil regime in history?
    So you have a dark history too no? Does it make you evil? Based on your logic : YES.

    Let me quote the holocaust museum:

    Finland fought with Germany against the Soviet Union but did not sign the Tripartite Pact and was not technically part of the Axis alliance.

    Not part of the alliance.

    And no Finnish jews were ever given to the Germans(something that some Jewish leaders did not do in other countries?).In fact, two were granted the iron cross. There was one incident and 8 jews were transported to Germany. Only 1 survived.

    Head of the state police was punished for that ( slap on the wrist, but blame the allies for not punishing  him)

    All possible crimes were cleared by the allied countries. That is the difference, every single crime (if there was any) were punished and that is the difference. If you don't go trough the process, you will carry the guilt.

    Guess who did not punish their criminals?

    But..You are aware that these terrorist acts are celebrated in Israel?

    And the communists killed more than the nazis. How on earth did some call him uncle Joe?

    Why did enlightend fins such as yourselves sided with the most evil regime in history?

    When did i do that?  I'm not 85 years old.

    •  Communist versus Nazis (0+ / 0-)

      And the communists killed more than the nazis. How on earth did some call him uncle Joe?

      Because if the Nazis had won, they would have murdered even more than the communists did historically.

    •  Things you 'forgot' to mention. (0+ / 0-)

      I just added two minorities in order to show that minorities havee been attacked here during our glorious history. Jews, muslims, gays, black people, asians people, catholics ( that i can approve, death to the Pope! ) and such.

      1. The problem is that there is a differnce between Muslims and other minorities. An Israeli study conducted in The Hebrew University by Dr. Arie Babicz found that 98 percent of all terrorism acts that took place since 1968 were carried out by Muslims or for a Muslim agenda.

      And please consider the facts I mention in my article. Muslim integration is a complete and utter failure, and by that Muslims differ from all other minorities that became increasinly integrated. You also forgot to mention that most Muslims hold views that stand in direct contradiction to western values and beliefs. You should check out the survey's results and tell me what you think.

      1. We can debate the legality of targeted killings in another occasion.
      1. Finland did hand the german the 8 Jewish foreign-nationals that stayed in Finland at the time, so some Jews were indeed handed to the Germans. So... the blood scoreboard reads : Finland 8   Israel 1.

      And the communists killed more than the nazis. How on earth did some call him uncle Joe?

      1. Correct me if i'm wrong , but didn't Finland share a strategic alliance with the Soviet Union for a long number of years? Until its collapse actually? So you sided with the Nazis , and when you saw there was no defeating the Russians , you sided with "Uncle Joe".
      1. Please tell me what terrorist acts are celebrated in Israel.
      1. I know your'e not 85 years old, I hoped you'd say that. Stop blaming US for the sins of the past. It's not relevant anymore. The Jewish question is , however , more relevant than ever as Israel faces very real threats of extinction.

      We may live in a gutter , but wer'e reaching for the stars.

      by SteppenWolf on Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 03:40:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  forgot? you have no idea what i have omitted (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lipris, LondonYank

          1.  The problem is that there is a differnce between Muslims and other minorities. An Israeli study conducted in The Hebrew University by Dr. Arie Babicz found that 98 percent  of all terrorism acts that took place since 1968 were carried out by Muslims or for a Muslim agenda.

        Oh really? How about the Vietnam war? Operation Phoenix? central and south america?

        Muslims can't compete with the CIA.

        Finland 8   Israel 1.

        I did not know they were Israeli citizens?

        Correct me if i'm wrong , but didn't Finland share a strategic alliance with the Soviet Union for a long number of years? Until its collapse actually? So you sided with the Nazis , and when you saw there was no defeating the Russians , you sided with "Uncle Joe".

        YYA Agreement

        "The art of bowing to the East so carefully that it could not be considered mooning the West."

        Please tell me what terrorist acts are celebrated in Israel.


        Lavon affair

        "In March 2005, Israel publicly honored the surviving perpetrators and President Moshe Katsav presented each with a certificate of appreciation for their efforts on behalf of the state, ending decades of official denial by Israel"

        • Avraham Stern has a stamp issued at this honor.
        • The king david- hotel bombing is celebrated, ask  the brits how much they enjoy that.

        Stop blaming US for the sins of the past. It's not relevant anymore. The Jewish question is , however , more relevant than ever as Israel faces very real threats of extinction.

        Sins of the past have not been investigated and the perps have not been punished.  If you can't face the  ugly reality, then you can't learn anything from it. And it i think it is relevant to point out that Israel has elected terrorist leaders (Menahem Begin for example) and that their leaders have been defending terrorism. How can they now cry over Hamas?

        "First and foremost, terror is for us a part of the
        political war appropriate for the circumstances of today"

        •  la la la (0+ / 0-)
          1. Is the CIA an ethnic/religious group? That's news to me. I should read Wikipedia more often.
          1. They would have been Israeli citizens if the Fins didn't ship them to their death.
          1. I know about the YYA Agreement. That's why I mentioned it.
          1. Your words reflect poor understanding of Israeli soceity. The Lavon Affair is remembered as a catastrophe in Israeli soceity and taught as a mistake and as criminal behaviour in Israeli schools. Please send me links to the prize thing.
          1. The King David Bombing celebrated? Sounds like rubbish to me. The Ministry of Education , as official policy , tagged that attack as unjust and criminal.
          1. Menachem Begin was a terrorist. But he also signed a peace deal with Egypt. Arafat was a terrorist too, (and remained one until his death day).
          1. Ben-Gurion had the guts to disarm ETZEL and LEHI , by force. Where's that resolve in the Palestinian side?
          1. We didn't punish our criminals? So did you. You sided with the Nazis. Why wasn't anyone executed for treason? How many innocent people died by the hands of the Fins in WW2? Did anyone even bother to investigate? Here's a country that was chummy with two most evil regimes in history. Please tell me there's nothing wrong with you and mean it. Your'e liberal when it concerns other nations. You can't see your owns problems.
          1. When the Soviets demanded Honge you went to war. Why? wouldn't giving them that territory just solve so many problems? Wouldn't it save countless lives?

          Why war then?

          We may live in a gutter , but wer'e reaching for the stars.

          by SteppenWolf on Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 04:34:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Lol lol lol? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            LondonYank

            Is the CIA an ethnic/religious group?

            Hmm, does the CIA act when a certain nation orders them to do so?

            They would have been Israeli citizens if the Fins didn't ship them to their death.

            Any evidence ?No? By that logic all jews should move to Israel. That doesn't seem to be the case. Our army killed lot more Soviet jews, but that was in battle. Are you going to cry because of that too? The army stopped them for coming Israeli citizens?

            Your words reflect poor understanding of Israeli soceity. The Lavon Affair is remembered as a catastrophe in Israeli soceity and taught as a mistake and as criminal behaviour in Israeli schools. Please send me links to the prize thing.

            Wiki look at the references.

            King David(wiki):

            In July 2006, right-wing Israelis including Binyamin Netanyahu attended a 60th anniversary celebration of the bombing, which was organized by the Menachem Begin Centre. The British Ambassador in Tel Aviv and the Consul-General in Jerusalem complained, saying "We do not think that it is right for an act of terrorism, which led to the loss of many lives, to be commemorated.". They also protested against an Israeli plaque that claims that people died because the British ignored warning calls, saying it was untrue and "did not absolve those who planted the bomb". The plaque reads "For reasons known only to the British, the hotel was not evacuated”.

            And ETA is a terror group even though they sometimes call before the bombs kill people.

            Menachem Begin was a terrorist. But he also signed a peace deal with Egypt. Arafat was a terrorist too, (and remained one until his death day).

            So, what kind of a nation elects, repeatedly, terrorists to lead the nation?

            You can't see your owns problems

            The minute we start to murder people and steal their land(and have clearly racist laws, i will do lot more than you are doing.

            We didn't punish our criminals? So did you. You sided with the Nazis. Why wasn't anyone executed for treason? How many innocent people died by the hands of the Fins in WW2? Did anyone even bother to investigate? Here's a country that was chummy with two most evil regimes in history. Please tell me there's nothing wrong with you and mean it. Your'e liberal when it concerns other nations. You can't see your owns problems.

            Where do you see treason?

            Did you punish Shamir? Sharon? Begin? No? that's right. All(possible) crimes were cleared, ask the allies.

            How many died? Good question. Tens of thousands died , mostly Russian POW's (and of course the soviets punished if there was anything illegal done to them). And yes, it has been investigated. They were not jewish, so you won't care.

            And there is nothing wrong with me. Evidently a wise foreign policy that yields results, is a good choice. We didn't lose millions. Wise choice,right?

            When the Soviets demanded Honge you went to war. Why? wouldn't giving them that territory just solve so many problems? Wouldn't it save countless lives?

            Hmmm, they demanded lot more than Hankoniemi. Baltic nations did give them what they wanted. How did that work for them? Waht they demanded was the homes for some 3-400k people. Btw, how many palestinians were forced to leave their homes?

            Why war then?

            Because the USSR invaded the country.

            •  The Finnish 'Morality' In Shambles. (0+ / 0-)

              Celebration? I saw the whole thing on T.V and it wasn't a "celebration". Clearly , the writer of the article is highly biased. There was no cake, no happy music, no re-enactments by chilren (if you wanna see those you should go across the border). A few speeches and everybody went home. As usual. With dignity , The Israeli way.

              Tell me, did anyone seriously investigate claims made by Alina Sana that up to 500 Jewish POWs were extradited to the Nazis simply because they were Jews? (POW aren't killed in battle) Or her claim that Finnish intelligence knew about the holocaust going on and still did nothing?
              So the scoreboard really reads 508 - 1 eh?
              Was anyone punished for that? Hmmmm... no? Damn my suprise.

              Good foreign policy? And if the Germans had won the war and eradicted Europe's jewry and murdererd tens of millions more? You would have survived. Hell, you would have become a fuc*ing empire! Certainly - a good policy. You sided with Satan and there's no excuse for that. That's the differnce between you and me : I know life is precious but I think that some things are worth dying for. I'm not a nihilist like yourself.

              Well , Syria wants "just" the Golan Heights , The Palestinians "only" want The West Bank and The Gaza Strip. Israel is tiny in comparison to the vast Arab nations around it. We gave the Palestinians land and we saw how it worked for us. More death.
              The palestinians are demanding homes for 4,000,000 people (the "right" of return).
              Your nation went to war for much less, you hypocrite.

              We may live in a gutter , but wer'e reaching for the stars.

              by SteppenWolf on Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 05:22:55 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Some never had any.. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                LondonYank

                As usual. With dignity , The Israeli way.

                But the event did take place, right?There you go then.

                Tell me, did anyone seriously investigate claims made by Alina Sana that up to 500 Jewish POWs were extradited to the Nazis simply because they were Jews? (POW aren't killed in battle) Or her claim that Finnish intelligence knew about the holocaust going on and still did nothing?
                So the scoreboard really reads 508 - 1 eh?
                Was anyone punished for that? Hmmmm... no? Damn my suprise.

                Elina Sana.

                Those were not jewish prisoners, they were Russian prisoners. If the Germans wanted to have them, they would in return give us some pow's that were linked to our "tribe". Those Russian prisoners were not given to the Germans because they were Jewish.

                No sale, there is no sacere status for one group. They were Soviets and the Germans wanted them.

                And did nothing? For example prisoner lists (names) were not given to the Germans after more information came from Germany.

                Good foreign policy? And if the Germans had won the war and eradicted Europe's jewry and murdererd tens of millions more? You would have survived. Hell, you would have become a fuc*ing empire! Certainly - a good policy. You sided with Satan and there's no excuse for that. That's the differnce between you and me : I know life is precious but I think that some things are worth dying for. I'm not a nihilist like yourself.

                An empire? Where? Our foreign policy did not tip the balance either way. Some bigger players decided the future.

                Sided with Satan, just like the Brits, the US, France and the rest sided with the devil.

                And no excuse? Survival is a good one. But you would not know anything on that as Israel hasn't been under a threat of the same magnitude. Sorry, arabs don't quite match the Soviets. No sale.

                And if life is precious, why do you support targeted killings ( that don't even hit the target)?
                Ah, you only value some lives, not the lives of the muslim hordes.

                Well , Syria wants "just" the Golan Heights , The Palestinians "only" want The West Bank and The Gaza Strip. Israel is tiny in comparison to the vast Arab nations around it. We gave the Palestinians land and we saw how it worked for us. More death.
                The palestinians are demanding homes for 4,000,000 people (the "right" of return).
                Your nation went to war for much less, you hypocrite.

                Golan heights were part of Syria, i can understand why they might want it back.

                Gaza and WB belong to the palestinians, wasn't that the original deal?

                Waht land did you give to them? It must be land that wasn't theirs at the first place or you can't say that you have given them that area.

                And a hypocrite? Went to war for less? When?

                •  Right of Return (0+ / 0-)

                  It is interesting that the author of this diary makes the same reference that Israelis constantly do when the right of return for Palestinians is brought up. Israel is a very small country, despite it illegally annexing land. Of course just like the Nazis and the Sudetenland they have been appeased by the West in this extension of their "living room". (References deliberately designed to insult and anger the diarist in the same way his drivel has angered me.)

                  What is undeniable though is that his supposed "flood" of immigration is very similar to the record of Jews moving to Israel. They "Right of Return" means that the Jewish immigration to the country represents about 3 million once their progeny have been counted and, as the "Jewish Homeland" they wish a similar number of further immigrants to the "tiny" area. Israeli government QuANGOs in the form of the Jewish Agency actively campaign among the diaspora for them to "return". Arguments about the size of the country are therefore simply a ploy to excuse the land confiscations that have continued ever since 1948.    

                  •  We are well aware of the problem.. (0+ / 0-)

                    you haven't began to recognize.
                    Multiculturalism is possible only in western soceity because of its liberal character.
                    Big changes in demographics would cause the new majority to dictate its values upon the minority. If that happens - Britain , as a secular state , would cease to exist and it will slowly adopt the values of Islam.
                    So all your hippie BS won't be worth a (excuse me) dog's piss within 50 years.

                    Secondly , Jews moved to Israel because no other country wanted to have them , post WW2.
                    Why should anyone take a bunch of Jews, that don't even have any money?

                    Thirdly,
                    Ofcourse , no nation of Palestine ever existed nor is there any record of Palestinians before 1910 , but they still have their rights (i'm being serious).
                    However , with 22 Arabs countries and 56 Muslim countries , I think that perhaps a different solution can be found other than the destruction of the only Jewish state. What I mean to say is : granting the "right" of return to 1967 border Israel would destroy the Jewish state. The "refugees" (by choice) should return to future Palestine.

                    We may live in a gutter , but wer'e reaching for the stars.

                    by SteppenWolf on Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 07:28:36 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  The only legal boundaries of Israel (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      LondonYank

                      Are those established by the UN in 1947. Any other land appropriated after war, whoever started them (another Israeli argument) is illegally held unless and until different borders are established by treaty.

                      •  Withdraw (0+ / 0-)

                        From scotland and wales. Theyr'e not yours. How about the so many islands Britain is still holding. The only legal boundaries of Britain is the English Island itself. I demand withdrawal .
                        BRITAIN IS A TERRORIST STATE.

                        We may live in a gutter , but wer'e reaching for the stars.

                        by SteppenWolf on Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 08:14:48 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Scotland and Wales (0+ / 0-)

                          Have devolved parliaments, and as for the 'English island', words fail me.  I'd suggest a recipe at this point, but I'm not much good at cooking.  I do make a nice smoked salmon sandwich, though.

                          'I can't wait to eat that monkey!' - Abraham Simpson

                          by TruthOfAngels on Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 12:27:34 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                    •  More falsehoods (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      LondonYank, rockhound

                      SteppenWolf wrote:

                      no nation of Palestine ever existed nor is there any record of Palestinians before 1910

                      Yet the "Basle Program" of the first Zionist Congress in 1897 started:

                      Zionism seeks to establish a home for the Jewish people in Palestine secured under public law. The Congress contemplates the following means to the attainment of this end:

                      The year before Hertzl in Der Judenstaat wrote:

                      Palestine is our unforgettable historic homeland

                      Earlier, the first Ottoman Parliament included deputies from the area and in 1881, the Ottomans prohibited "foreign Jews" (ie not Ottoman citizens)from living in Palestine although they were allowed to settle in other parts of the Empire and pilgrims were allowed to go to the holy places.
                      http://www.therevival.co.uk/...

                      Clearly if there was an area called Palestine recognised by the Zionist Congress, the inhabitants would be Palestinians. This sort of Denial is part of the tactics used to delegitimise claims to a modern state and again borders on racism.

                      Since the Israelis go back to biblical sources, it is worth while remembering that Abraham (Ibrahim to Muslims) came to Caana from Mesopotamia to escape persecution. The Caananites were defeated by the Jews by invasion, just as the Jews were thrown out by the Romans and the land suceesively conquered by various powers. Any claim to the land, apart presumably by the original Cannanites, is therefore dubious.

                      •  Origins of Palestine (0+ / 0-)

                        When the Hebrews entered Eretz Knaan , they fought a local tribe - The Phillistines.
                        For some reason that name stuck and Eretz Israel was named Palestine by its British occupiers.
                        The former occupier - The Ottoman Empire simply called it the "Southern Syrian Province".

                        Theodor Herzel , in both Altnoyland and "The Jewish State" refers to "Palestine" as Eretz-Israel, its Hebrew biblical name.
                        It was ofcourse "lost" in translation.

                        Another historical error made by you is your statement about 1881. The first Jewish Immigrants to Palestine arrived there in 1881, funded by Jewish Philantropists. They were called BILU (House of Jacob we shall go forth) and small number of them arrived there exactly in that year.

                        Jews had three kingdoms in Eretz Israel : The Kingdom of David , that later seperated to Yehuda (Judea) and Israel (who's inhabitants were later banished). Judea existed until it was destroyed and its inhabitants banished.
                        It was the Persian king Koresh that allowed the Jews to later return thus establishing the Hashmonite state , which lasted for about 100 years.

                        The "Palestinians" , however , never had a palestinian state and began developing their identity only when they felt threatend by the Jewish presence. That process is well described in Benny Moris's book "Victims".
                        Even prominent Palestinians , inculding Arafat , admitted on several occasions that the Palestinian people does not really exist. (All that said , I do support a Palestinian state).

                        So ,that said, Israel is the only homeland Jews have ever had. Every religious Jew says this every day, for 2000 years : "If I forget jerusalem , may my right hand forget its cunning."
                        Read the Passover Hagaddah and Jewish texts before you say Jews don't have a deep historical and emotional bond to Eretz Israel .
                        And please tell me that jews could always live quietly in Europe and in Muslim nations.

                        Moreover , After 1948 , Arab states banished 850,000 Jews from their territory to Israel (thank god) without their property.
                        We demand our property and houses back.
                        Doesn't that make sense?

                        We may live in a gutter , but wer'e reaching for the stars.

                        by SteppenWolf on Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 11:05:36 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                •  I'm back . I was working. (0+ / 0-)
                  1. It wasn't a celebration. It a commemoration. There's a difference. No aggressive or political speeches took place and speaker D. Zuker (Former MK) spoke about the sins of the past.
                  1. Elina Sana claims that among 3000 POWs in Finland , 500 were Jews. Those Jews were kept apart from the other POWs and were transfered as quickly as possible to the Nazis.
                  1. Not under a threat? I just sat in my house for a whole month because of Hizballah. Isn't Iran a threat , with its huge army and impending atomic weapons? Isn't Hamas a threat to peaceful life? Isn't syria , which funds and brokers terrorism , a threat?  Isn't demography a threat? Aren't the hate and antisemitism of Arabs also a threat? Israel had to fight to its teeth to survive 1973 and 1948 , and has been battling terrorism ever since the 1910's. So yes , there's a threat.
                  1. Taking the right strategic choice doesn't make you moral. You sided with the Nazis to survive , we kill terrorists to survive. Who's worse?
                  1. I think the ones without value for human life are cowardly terrorists hiding among kids and women. I told you i'd love to debate this issue on another occasion.
                  1. The Golan was a part of syria, but it's a part of Israel NOW. Why don't the Turks or the Brits ask for Israel back? It was part of Britain , wasn't it?
                  1. Should Israel give a prize to syria , who is 9 times larger than Israel , for supporting terrorism? Should it deport yet more Jews from their home? Ignore the myriad attempts made by Syria to destroy it over the years?
                  1. I ,as most Israelies, agree to a palestinian state in the WB and gaza with East Jerusalem as its capital under these , very strict , conditions : 1. All terror groups must disarm , 2. Palestinians must change their textbooks and schoolbooks. 3. No right of return WHAT SO EVER. 4. Some Israeli-Arab towns that a vast majority of its populations are anti-Zionist , would be annexed to Palestine and their citizens will have their citizenship denied.
                  1. I'm ofcourse talking about the reason Finland sided with the evil Nazis in WW2. The Soviets demanded land , didn't they? and you didn't want to give it.

                  We may live in a gutter , but wer'e reaching for the stars.

                  by SteppenWolf on Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 07:16:29 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  ok (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    LondonYank

                    1.there is still denial (a blue "plate" is there and it claims that it wasn't terror because they were warned. BS). I doubt Bibi was there because he was so sad that some non-jewish people died.

                    2.

                    Here something for you RE: Sana

                    To save the Jewish prisoners of war, the Jewish Congregation of Helsinki proposed to the Defence Staff that all Jewish prisoners should be placed in a separate camp.

                    A few years ago two former Soviet prisoners of war now living in Israel came to Helsinki to thank the Jewish Congregation for the "paradise" that their camp was called.

                    There is very little evidence that would back up her claims. She has never been able to show that those prisoners were transported to Germany because they were Jewish. I can't blame her, there are no documents available (some where destroyed, not sure what was in those documents. A shitload of documents was destroyed ) But she is making clames that have very little evidence. One method was to (this comes form the univ. of Jerusalem) see if the names were "jewish". That should give you really clear evidence?BS.

                    3.

                    Taking the right strategic choice doesn't make you moral. You sided with the Nazis to survive , we kill terrorists to survive. Who's worse?

                    You, of course. Just look at the current policies: land stealing, racist marriage laws, killing Lebanese civilians (and there is no way it was an accident, over 1000 died). There are ways to avoid doing these things.

                    There is no way any terrorist group can ever use the same power the biggest mad man in history, Josef Stalin, did. Terrorist groups are not a threat to Israel's existence.Israel has been a huge threat to the existence of a Palestinian state, that state does not even exist today!

                    The Golan was a part of syria, but it's a part of Israel NOW. Why don't the Turks or the Brits ask for Israel back? It was part of Britain , wasn't it?

                    Because you are there ? :D

                    No right of return WHAT SO EVER. 4. Some Israeli-Arab towns that a vast majority of its populations are anti-Zionist , would be annexed to Palestine and their citizens will have their citizenship denied.

                    Right to return can not be taken away. How come the Jewish people have a "right to return" to the occupied territories?

                    I'm ofcourse talking about the reason Finland sided with the evil Nazis in WW2. The Soviets demanded land , didn't they? and you didn't want to give it.

                    As i have pointed, there was no alliance.
                    The reason was little bit different, but too complicated for this.

                    And it was our land, we were living there. you have mixed the roles, it should be: Soviets=israel and they are stealing land from the victims.

                    •  Come on man... (0+ / 0-)
                      1. There's no debating this : Finland transported Jewish POWs to Germany although it knew full well that the Germans were killing Jews in masses. Their fate was known all the way.
                      1. Hamas and Hizballah are Iran's proxies. If we send a bunch of Jews to Finland to kill people, give them money and weapons and support them in every aspect , a logical conclusion would be that Israel is waging a war against Finland. So Hamas and Hizballah are actually a part of the Iranian army, and sadly , theyr'e not amatures.
                      1. Making hollow accusations about Israel , whose society you clearly don't understand , is childish and stupid. Many Israelies , including myself , feel for the poor Lebanese that died in this war. But we also critisize their government for its cowardice and failure to act on the issue of Hizballah. We blame Hizballah for sacrificing Lebanon in Iran's Interests. We blame Hizballah for using children as human shields. I think this war was utterly justified , although not conducted wisely.
                      1. The "racist" marrige laws you were talking about were used countless times as an instrument for terrorists to infiltrate Israel via its Muslim population. There are close to 100 instances of that happening.
                      1. "Because you are there :D" : We are also in the Golan you know. Many Israelies live there.
                      1. I don't support the settlements , as do you, BUT you DO support the "right" of return for Palestinians. Isn't that hypocritical? Why should Jews be banished from their homes to create an ethnically cleansed Palestinian state while Israel should suffer the invasion of 4,000,000 Palestinians that would demolish the state as a Jewish state? Shouldn't there be two states : one for Palestinians and one for Jews? Wouldn't that solve our problems? If history teaches us anything , it's that Arabs and Jews can't really get along. So why won't we live seperatly?
                      1. I accept your claim. Finland is indeed a very tolerant country. Iv'e visited there too some years ago and it's also very beautiful. But is Finland facing the same quagmire Israel does? Is finland surrounded by millions of Fin-hating loonies? Have the Fins (god forbid) ever undergone extreme and continuous prosecution? Is Finland facing a demographic threat that might destroy the Finnish identity?
                      1. I agree the occupation is wrong and was always wrong , but is that the only problem here? Israeli leftist always talk about the occupation as the source of all problems. Don't you think that the thinking promoted by Arab governments and religious organizations created an increadibly violent and intolerant culture? Did you know that Israel publishes 8 times more academic publications than the 22 Arab nations put together every year?

                      We may live in a gutter , but wer'e reaching for the stars.

                      by SteppenWolf on Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 12:09:42 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Nope (0+ / 0-)
                        1. Not Jewish, Soviet. As long as there is no evidence that they were transported because they were jewish, i'm not willing accept anything. That

                        's why i hope the really destroyed every peace of evidence as i can not be sure what was the original idea. Play safe.

                        1. And that applies to Israel and the US?
                        1. The war was a failure, you didn't achieve anything. Or at least i fail to see what was achieved. and i have no idea why Nasrallah went bonkers.
                        1. And it is still a racist law. Thos funny Germans would have loved laws like that. you chose to have laws like that= not a civilized country. This is 2006, not 500 BC.

                        5 And in Gaza too. not anymore.

                        1. You can live together, you just need the romans to keep some order in the province. And they have the right to come back. Build a new wall if it bothers you.
                        1. No it is not. It may look like that, but it really is not. Sweden more of a good example. And we have the Russians, they are trying to smoke us out as i write ( huge forest fires in Russia, the smoke has been here for weeks ). And you should know(pogroms) how much they can hate.

                        And yes, we have had hundreds of years of persecution here. You think that Christianity is the original religion here? and the language..uuh, don't get me started.

                        There is no demografic threat here, maybe we will get more brown people but that's about it.

                        1. Not the quantity, it is the quality that counts. I'm not sure that helped.

                        You have shitty friends there, too bad. Next time, tell Abraham that snow isn't so horrible. Or at least try to get a piece of land that has some oil, how hard can that be i the ME. (of course, maybe it is better not to have it, makes people crazy).

                        •  Yep. (And yapping.) (0+ / 0-)
                          1. I'll read the book and get back to you on that. Still you can't admit your country's problems. That's ok.
                          1. It would have been true if Israel's sole purpose was to serve as a tool against Lebanon and Syria and Egypt and Jordan, but Israel was founded so we can live and goes to wars not on America's ticket.
                          1. I agree the war was a failure.
                          1. It is technically , but it saves lives , and that's more important. Tell me please (i'd like to know your name if that's possible) , are you one of the people refered to as bättre folk or are you just a Finnish-speaking Fin? Know any members of Joensuu's skinheads do you now?

                          5.

                          Such hidden racism has been very common in working life. In 2001 and 2002 Pirkko Pitkänen and Päivi Atjonen studied what kind of attitudes Finnish business executives have towards immigrants applying for jobs. According to the study, the employers were afraid of the risks involved with hiring immigrants. They considered African-born immigrants and Muslims the most unreliable and unwanted employees, but had very little or nothing against hiring people from the Nordic countries, Estonia, Western Europe and North America. Roughly half of all the immigrants in Finland feel that their color, religion or ethnic origin has complicated their employment. About a third of the immigrants are still unemployed (Pitkänen 7-8). Among certain ethnicities, such as Somalians and Iraqis, the unemployment rate is as high as 70% (Heikkilä and Peltonen 5).

                          Here here for racism-free Finland.

                          1. The Golan heights have been a part of Israel for 40 years. They belonged to Syria for 19. Some 30,000 Israelies live there and countless businesses work there. It is (unlike Gaza) , an integral part of Israel , practically , not ideologically.
                          1. We can't live together. We never could. Two totally different cultures can't coexist in a single state. It's ridiculous.
                          1. Please tell me how many Fins got killed just for being Fins all around Europe during the last 200 years? Have Fins ever been systematically been driven away from their homes? Was there ever an attempt to kill the Fins altogether (god forbid)?
                          1. I know alot more about Arab culture than you do and i can assure you (nothing that a little online research can't confirm) : most Arabs living in Arab states despise Israel and Jews , don't believe in our right to exist here and think Israel is a spearhead in the West's crusade war against Islam.

                          We may live in a gutter , but wer'e reaching for the stars.

                          by SteppenWolf on Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 01:54:37 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  asdf (0+ / 0-)
                            1. Check  the other studies on the subject, if you want to get a decent result. she has the academic status of David Irving, but go ahead.
                            1. No, i don't know any skinheads. And the joensuu-case was handled quite quickly. and it is about foreigners, not Jewish people.

                            I'm not part of the bättre folk, well, ok, ½.

                            1. Where did i say that it didn't exist? Learn the language and your chances to get the job goes up. And in what company do the executives hire the people? I haven't seen them hiring me.

                            It is very different to have laws that discriminate and  to act in a discriminate way.

                            1. Yes you can. I'll get the Romans to kick you,both.
                            1. Why limit it to the last 200 years? One good example comes from Sweden where thousands of "forest-finns" were brutally incarcerated. Some were going to be sent to the Swedish colony in north america..sounds familiar?

                            In 1640 it became law that if a finn refused to learn Swedish, his house would be burned and there would be no legal protection on his life( free game).

                            Want more?

                            And yes, the dear soviets did and the Russians today are, targeting tribes form the same language group.

                            1. How on eath did the jews then survive in arab countries for so long?
                          •  i'm tired... (0+ / 0-)

                            I'll post another diary tomorrow. This time about Muslim media. See you then. Good night.

                            We may live in a gutter , but wer'e reaching for the stars.

                            by SteppenWolf on Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 03:08:10 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  One last thing (0+ / 0-)

                            They survived because Islam protects their lives as Dhimmi , but , except for a very brief golden age , Jews were ill treated, discriminated against and murdered on various occasions.
                            One might ask himself  , how did the Jews survive centuries of persecution in Europe.
                            The answer is simple : The belief In "Geula" (i don't know how to translate that but it generally means a firm belief in the return to Eretz Israel and mercy at the end of time) and collective memory.
                            It is probably the yearning for Eretz Israel that kept Jews and the Jewish faith so alive over time.

                            If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.
                            Let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth, If I remember thee not; If I prefer not Jerusalem Above my chief joy.

                            Bon nuit , mon ami.

                            We may live in a gutter , but wer'e reaching for the stars.

                            by SteppenWolf on Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 03:18:59 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Remeber (0+ / 0-)

                            "Remember" does not imply "I shall drive  your existing inhabitants from your land and annexe parts of another country in your name".

                          •  BRITAIN IS A TERRORIST STATE (0+ / 0-)

                            get out of scotland , wales and the "british" islands.

                            We may live in a gutter , but wer'e reaching for the stars.

                            by SteppenWolf on Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 10:14:19 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  On that we can perhaps agree (0+ / 0-)

                            There is lot of room for criticism. Remember to add cartoons :D

                •  Gaza and WB (0+ / 0-)

                  just for the protocol.
                  prior to to the Six-Day War Gaza was part of Egypt and the WB was the part of Jordan.
                  So, according to your logic, the Israelis should return those lands to Jordan and Egypt and not to the Palestinians.
                  Did you know that Israel wanted to give Gaza strip back to Egypt, together with the Sinai peninsula?

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