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View Diary: Lamont slams Lieberman as AWOL on Katrina leadership (96 comments)

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  •  Distraction (1+ / 0-)
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    I don't want to go off wildly off-topic. The Lieberman campaign literature and references to "Al Sharpton Democrats" are well-known. You're free to start your own diary on the topic of Joe Lieberman and race and readers can discuss it there - on topic. Using race in a political campaign is despicable but it's not the same as being racist. See the recent Ray Nagin Mayoral campaign as an example. Rep. John Lewis knows racism when he sees it and endorsed Joe Lieberman in the primary. I'll take his word over yours.

    This isn't a diary about race, it's a specific critique of Joe Lieberman's role in creating DHS and degrading FEMA. Race is a distraction to this discussion. If you call that "wet noodle" - so be it.

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    by joejoejoe on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 10:18:37 AM PDT

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    •  Now you've made claims, (0+ / 0-)

      so I can't very well just disappear into the night.


      Using race in a political campaign is despicable but it's not the same as being racist.

      Wrong. It is exactly the same and I'm shocked that you'd even try to defend him with this argument. Using race-baiting to advance yourself in your job is racist. If you don't get that, then there's something missing in you. You very well may be a racist yourself. Who knows? Nobody knows anybody here.

      But to give you the benefit of the doubt, here's an example. OK, You think your boss is a racist (against blacks). You then start using that in watercooler talk, veiled hints, codewords, etc... because you know Jim over there (black) is jockying for the same promotion as you.

      That's racism. Sorry, you're wrong.


      John Lewis wasn't exposed to Lieberman's racist statments when he supported him. And neither were a lot of people.

      Yes, many people were surprised by Joe's racist move... but that doesn't mean he's not a racist, it just means he's a politician surrounded by other politicians making political (not personal) decisions about who to support and who not to support.

      If I were you, I'd ask Americans of color who are supporting Lamont whether they think Joe is a racist, not some politician. I'm not sure why you aren't, unless you have something to hide... from yourself and from everyone else.

      You have 100% the wrong metric.

      If you're going to base your opinions on the choices of politicans, then you're hopeless.

      And you need a healthy dose of street-sense.

      So now, unless you've got more wet-noodle arguments that don't stack up...

      I'll leave you in peace to be wrong, and to enjoy your needless myopia on your precious little topic...

      while ignoring the RACIST filth in our midst cozying up to Karl Rove and the GOP.

      Throw your TV at your TV.

      by Bad Schandau on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 10:38:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Again (1+ / 0-)
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        I'm trying to stay on topic and you accuse me of hiding something. I feel no obligation to debate every point in this space or answer every one of your unsourced points. I included links above to the racist comments you might be referring to in good faith for other readers and you call me myopic, in need of street-sense. Fair enough.

        Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'll take them in the spirit they are offered and say good day.

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        by joejoejoe on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 10:48:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, I'm accusing you of being WRONG. (0+ / 0-)

          and trying to hide it, yes. And I'm accusing you of trying at first to argue with me, and then quitting once you realized you were WRONG.

          So not only are you WRONG, you're now playing the coward.

          So goodbye, you want to disguise Joe's racism... I wonder why? But that's your baggage and your shortcoming, not my concern, other than it needs to be pointed out for what it is; other people need to be made aware of your agenda to only speak in half-truths.

          "Unsourced points"...

          as if providing a link to Joe's racist agenda somehow legitimizes your disguising of it? That makes sense... to you. The links are there... and everyone can see for themselves that Joe is a racist, so I'm not sure how your links backing up my argument somehow dismiss that argument?

          Again... makes sense to you.

          Joe Lieberman is a racist, and there must be an interesting reason you're so loathe to discuss it... cause I don't buy all this "staying on topic" b.s.

          If you felt that way, you would have said so in your first post. As it is, you realized you were wrong and couldn't defend you position, so you're taking your toys and going home.

          Fine. But I wonder what that real reason you don't want to discuss Joe's racism might be?

          Throw your TV at your TV.

          by Bad Schandau on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 11:09:02 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You are a reactionary jerk (1+ / 0-)
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            ..with a history of picking arguments with everyone here. I'm wrong in your opinion and maybe a racist. I don't care what you think.

            My initial comment was an offhand remark to deflect your injection of race into a discussion of Homeland Security. You find interesting reasons for my reluctance to discuss the topic when the only reason I don't want to discuss it is I think you are a complete and total asshole who argues in bad faith without offering any evidence other than your lordly opinion.

            I think Joe Lieberman is out of touch because he no longer grasps the full meaning and effect of his statements. Disagreeing with Al Sharpton is fair game. Having your campaign call someone an 'Al Sharpton Democrat' is an appeal to a certain kind of voter that is likely a bigot, a racist, or merely uncomfortable with black people. That's despicable, as I said above, but it's not exactly the same as BEING racist. I could debate the kinds and degrees of racism and ignorance and lack of self knowledge with somebody who discusses something in good faith but your first instinct when I didn't 100% agree with your wonderful insights was to question whether I was racist for not agreeing with you. I should have ignored you at that point because you are clearly a reactionary asshole who can't stand the thought that someone may disagree with you in good faith. YOU HAVE TO BE RIGHT.

            I've read most of your past comments. You offer nothing but cock sure vitriol with no backup. You see yourself as a 'truth teller' but you're really just an immature shallow reactionary in my humble opinion.

            This diary and this thread are not all about you. You are not central to the discussion. I imagine you will want to have the last word and I'm not going to waste any more time discussing a tangent with a damn fool.

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            by joejoejoe on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 11:34:37 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That's your problem. (0+ / 0-)

              You're too concerned with me and winning this argument, rather than talking about common sense and reality.

              You use words like "out of touch" which are just political buzz words without meaning... and then actually try to defend them. That's humorous. Don't you even recognize political rubbish when you're spoonfed it?

              Wake up and recognize reality... till then, yeah... you'll get called out as a simpleton by people like me when you offer up rubbish arguments.

              Joe is a racist. He has a racist political agenda and he's making full use of it to win votes from people he's betting are fellow racists. That's just the reality. It's GOoPer Politics 101 and he's got it down pat.

              You dont' think that's racist... fine; I say that's because you're insensitive... and quite likely a racist yourself. And most racists don't consider themselves to be racists either, just fyi.

              I argue with people like yourself because you need to be shown other viewpoints and you need to have yours challenged... particularly when they're so inadequate wrt representing reality.

              The point isn't that the diary is "about me."

              I'm not sure when commenting in a diary dictated that you had to pay attention or engage me.

              You've done so thus far as part of a failed attempt to argue your position...

              and then a cowardly attempt to wage personal attacks on me once your argument flopped.

              It's not uncommon, in fact it's the most typical way that cowards who've lost arguments end up operating.

              You want to play little Lordy yourself and cut off debate because it's not dictated by you...

              fine. Your cowardly loss.

              Throw your TV at your TV.

              by Bad Schandau on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 08:28:49 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I wrote the diary you moron (0+ / 0-)


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                by joejoejoe on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 08:50:47 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  very clever... (0+ / 0-)


                  i can't start an argument, you just can't seem to finish?

                  you write words ("out of touch"), but you aren't saying anything.

                  so, feel free to end this "oh so irrelevant" discussion any time...

                  not long ago, you couldn't wait to be rid of this totally absurd topic in your precious gold-plated diary. but now you seem enthralled.

                  i guess when it degrades into you calling people names, then you're interested. Then it becomes relevant wrt your precious precious diary? that fits more with your level of insight on politics?

                  I wrote the diary you moron

                  lame. more lame than the word "lame" could possibly express.


                  Throw your TV at your TV.

                  by Bad Schandau on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 09:16:08 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You are some pale flower (0+ / 0-)

                    You call me a racist because I disagree with you and when I call you a jerk in response you accuse me of name calling.

                    You accuse me of stifiling discussion when I wrote the diary to create disussion on the topic of my choosing. You choose to use the diary I wrote as an open thread for your views.

                    I offer evidence suggesting you may not have conclusively proved Joe Lieberman is a racist merely by stating it repeatedly. For those who might agree with YOU I linked to the evidence you referenced without sharing and then you accuse me of hiding an agenda.

                    This site is about Democratic politics and electing Democrats. This diary contained information that was relevant to today's news reports that Ned Lamont criticized Joe Lieberman on his role in creating DHS and FEMA's role. Agree, disagree, I don't care. But you made the choice to take this diary into your own sandbox of allegations without evidence. I don't play by those rules.

                    What this diary isn't about and what in my view this site is not about is a wanker like yourself escalating every dispute into the most volatile terms. Your comments are neither debate nor discussion - merely an endless stream of your perfect wisdom restated again and again with no room in the world for anything other than the possiblity that you are 100% correct.

                    You've called me a racist off the cuff and in other comments said Dick Cheney allowed 9/11 to happen and that you said of Americans that serve in the military:

                    and it's the reason i don't feel much for you guys. sad, but like i said, you made your own beds, now they're yours to sleep in if you can. you already pocketed the money, you sold your souls. it's already over for you.

                    You are entitled to your views but you are a repellent person who can't tolerate anything other than 100% agreement on your terms. You don't add information other than your own opinion yet when confronted with contrary opinions your merely parrot WRONG again and again until people tire of your rhetorical games and go away. You then declare victory and spit on whoever took the time to engage you in the first place.

                    You're entitled to your views. You are also a petty asshole who mistakes endless comebacks with discussion. I tried several times to make a point in response to your comments and you accuse me of bad faith and being a racist for daring to dissent from your views.

                    You're a small minded reactionary asshole like David Horowitz and bound to become a cruel conservative as you get older. You're the worst kind of troll, fatalistic and superior. The world can only unfold according as you see it because you are so fucking superior. That's a great way to build coaltions large enough to win elections. But your just too cool to be 'politic' and have to bring the truth no matter how much it hurts. That's your prerogative.

                    It's my prerogative to say good day and go fuck yourself, troll.

                    Like YearlyKos? You'll love Rising Tide New Orleans 8/25-7. Be there!

                    by joejoejoe on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 09:47:50 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

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