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View Diary: 'Fight them there, so we don't have to fight them here' key lie in New Big Fib© (202 comments)

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  •  Their goal is to be righteous by participating (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fred in Vermont, walkshills

    in a jihad, earning eternal salvation according to the Koran.  They can do that much more easily in Iraq than by coming to the US and risking "contamination" by infiltrating our culture.  Us fighting them over there makes it far easier for the average Muslim extremist to attain eternal salvation.

    On the other hand, it does nothing to reduce al Qaeda's determination to strike us here, because their goal is to drive us Western devils out of their holy land of Saudi Arabia.  These elite terrorists will keep trying to strike us here no matter what.

    This is the first President I am afraid may refuse to leave office at the end of his term. --oscarsdad, December '00

    by oscarsdad on Sat Sep 02, 2006 at 07:22:04 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Oh I agree (3+ / 0-)

      Bin Laden's goal on 9/11 was to provoke the US into attacking a middle eastern country. He got what he wanted. Why did he want this? Because he felt it would so inflame the people of the Middle East against the West in general and America in particular that it would lead to uprisings throughout the Middle East against the secular westernized rulers there, particularly in countries like Saudi Arabia and Egypt.

      Then, once the Yankees and their puppet rulers were finally driven from the Middle East the way would be paved to usher Taliban-like governments into all countries in the Middle East, returning the entire Muslim world to theocratic rule like it had in the glory days of the Ottoman Empire and the middle ages before that.

      But this isn't how Bush is dealing with Al Qaeda and strife in the middle east in general. To him, muslims have absolutely no legitimate grievances against America whatsoever. Our presence in the middle east for decades, and the existence of secular governments friendly to and supported by the US is simply not open for discussion. Therefore, Bush has to fall back on the simplisitic idea that they want to kill us just because they are bad people who hate our freedoms, so let's send some troops over their for them to hate and kill so that they won't have to do it to God-fearing republicans over here.

      •  Yes. Once again, Bush cares far more about (4+ / 0-)

        what is going to consolidate his power than what is true, or what is good for the average American.

        This is the first President I am afraid may refuse to leave office at the end of his term. --oscarsdad, December '00

        by oscarsdad on Sat Sep 02, 2006 at 07:44:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Its just good Straussian/NeoCon doctrin (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SecondComing

          Bush cares far more about . . .  what is going to consolidate his power than what is true

          Well as Shadia Drury says of the neocon doctrine reveled by Leo Strauss

          "perpetual deception of the citizens by those in power is critical because they need to be led, and they need strong rulers to tell them what's good for them."

          So it is not about greed for power it is about the duty of the few who really understand the world to say whatever they need to be able to lead the others.

           

          •  We can't handle the truth (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Fred in Vermont

            So for our own good we are told lies. oscardad's brother seems quite happy with that arrangment.

            •  Not necessary about "truth" (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              dolphin777

              We can't handle the truth . . . So for our own good we are told lies.

              Not so much to protect from the truth but to makes us think whatever is necessary to let ourselves be lead by the born leaders among us.

              This is how one analysis of the the Straussians puts it     

              . . . the neoconservatives created myths to make the Soviet Union and terrorist organizations such as Al-Qaeda appear to be better organized and coordinated, as well as more threatening than they actually were, and that such "nightmares" enabled the neoconservatives to gain disproportionate power in the Reagan and George W. Bush administrations.

      •  Real reason we have not been attacked here again (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        walkshills, Warren Terrer, dolphin777

        Bin Laden's goal on 9/11 was to provoke the US into attacking a middle eastern country. He got what he wanted.

        And of course that is precisely the reason we have not seen more al Qaeda attacks.  He staged the mother-of-all-provocations and it worked.  Striking us again now would be either anti-climatic or counterproductive.  These guys follow orders.  That is why we have not seen another attack.  It has nothing to do with them being "occupied" in Iraq.

         

    •  They only need a few special jihadi for here (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      walkshills, dolphin777

      They can do that much more easily in Iraq than by coming to the US and risking "contamination" by infiltrating our culture.

      There is also the issue just what skills one would need to be able to function in America even with false papers and lots of money.  The average jihadi just would be useless to send to America. 

      You are not going to take some kid from the slums of some Arab city and send them into the belly of the beast.  We know that there are jihadi who speak prefect English and know their way around the modern world, but people like that never seem to be among the few foreign Arabs we kill or capture in Iraq.

      So the "them" that we are really worried about fighting here, and should be worried about, are not "there" in the first place.

      Meanwhile with a fraction of what we are spending fighting "there" we could get a lot more protection "here". 

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