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View Diary: FL-16 A Democrat gay-baiting? (60 comments)

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  •  Sorry (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MattBellamy, tlh lib, fabacube, nonnie9999

    A gay man voting for DOMA (I don't care who was president at the time) and lending his support to the party that is openly belligerent and bigoted toward gay people will not get my support.

    I hope Mahoney does out Foley, and I hope it makes his fundie supporters' heads explode.

    •  dude, you lend your support to america (0+ / 0-)

      my response here is the same as the one above.  he's like every last soul who's sought to change the system from the inside.  sadly, not everyone can be the ass-kicking revolutionaries of Kossian purity that we aspire to be.

      "Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in. Great for solving problems after it creates them." --Isaac Brock

      by Beyondo98 on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 08:34:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  why ONLY on gay issues? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tlh lib

        does that make him O.K? The Log Cabin Repugs are "out and proud" does that make supporting the G.O.P agenda for all other issues O.K?

      •  See My Comment Above (0+ / 0-)

        BTW, you're attempt to put forward the notion that criticizing a gay person who votes for gay legislation belies some sort of misguided "purity" on my part is laughable.

        •  laughability (0+ / 0-)

          was that, like, ha ha funny?  or just running-backwards-through-a-cornfield funny?

          dude, i'm a jew, and almost everything i believe in terms of jewish politics in this country could be perceived as anti-jewish.  so, maybe foley and i are both self-loathing.

          in the meantime, although i'd like to again stress that this is about a democrat who gay-baits, i think it's somewhat important to look at foley's entire career of votes, all of which are subsequently pro-gay.  so yes, this is about your purity, though you offered no argument to counter my accusation.  you're suggesting that every decision of foley's has the potential for undermining his status as gay-friendly, ignoring the rest of his votes that are pro-gay.  the guy made an obviously bad choice, even from his own perspective now, so let's get biblical and ask if he who is without sin should...

          "Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in. Great for solving problems after it creates them." --Isaac Brock

          by Beyondo98 on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 09:05:12 PM PDT

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          •  Laughable as in Absurd (0+ / 0-)

            so yes, this is about your purity, though you offered no argument to counter my accusation.

            What part of hypocritical do you not get about a gay may voting for legislation that discrminates against gay people?  Criticizing open hypocrisy does not equal "purity," dude.

            Regarding Mahoney's alleged "gay baiting," by the link you provided, it doesn't clear at to me at all that Mahoney is making reference to Foley's sexuality.  But even if he is, good.  As I said before, I hope Mahoney does out Foley.

            Again, that's my argument. You might not like my argument, but there it is.

            •  I agree (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              HarveyMilk

              Calling this gay-baiting doesn't seem to be supported by the evidence, because this line of attack against phony moderates is in play in many races around the country right now - eg, Charlie Bass in NH-02, for instance.

              Mark Foley supports the ultra-radical conservative agenda in Washington, DC but pretends to be all nice and moderate when he's back home in Florida. It sure sounds like he's trying to hide a "dirty little secret" to me.

              If Mahoney had said Foley is "in the closet" about his true conservative identity, then we might have a stronger case here.

              •  problem is mahoney is also dabbling with hating (0+ / 0-)

                the gay altogether.  he hasn't come out in favor of banning gay marriage, but he has come out to attack foley for his vote against the marriage amendment:
                http://www.timmahoneyforflorida.com/...

                so, there, mahoney is trying to make an issue of it and he's using coded language to goose the wingnuts.  the evidence is there if you care to look at it with the cynical eye it deserves

                "Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in. Great for solving problems after it creates them." --Isaac Brock

                by Beyondo98 on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 09:20:19 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  and then there's this gem (0+ / 0-)

                  `Mark Foley wants it both ways when it comes to gay marriage`, said Charles Halloran, spokesman for Mahoney.

                  sorry i didn't provide more evidence before

                  "Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in. Great for solving problems after it creates them." --Isaac Brock

                  by Beyondo98 on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 09:21:24 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  am i charlie brown's teacher or something? (0+ / 0-)

              the open hypocrisy you decry is belied by everything foley has done since.  so you've either ignored what i said before, or i must sound like a muzzled trumpet to you.

              and on the second issue, FOLEY IS ALREADY OUTED.  there's no outing to be done, which is why the gay-baiting is being deployed.  mahoney is just doing his subtle best to remind the mouth-breathing bug-zapper watching crowd in his district of foley's sexuality.

              "Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in. Great for solving problems after it creates them." --Isaac Brock

              by Beyondo98 on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 09:17:29 PM PDT

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              •  Tell Me (0+ / 0-)

                everything foley has done since.

                I asked you upthread what Foley has done.  I got nothing in response.  At least Charlie Brown's teacher makes some noise....

                •  like i said (0+ / 1-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Hidden by:
                  HarveyMilk

                  he voted against the gay marriage amendment, was the first GOP congressman to implement a policy of non-dsicrimination on the basis of sexual orientation in hiring for his office, has fought against abstinence-only education, etc.  what else does he have to do?  join the village people?

                  "Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in. Great for solving problems after it creates them." --Isaac Brock

                  by Beyondo98 on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 09:22:43 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Eat Shit (0+ / 0-)

                    Have a donut for the Village People comment.  Asshole.

                    •  senses of humor in this thread: lacking (0+ / 0-)

                      in any event, i have now read your comment upthread, and it may surprise you to learn that there are a lot of gay people who don't support civil unions because they're still discriminatory, who don't support gay marriage now because it will happen eventually anyway, and who think hate crimes legislation is absurd.  

                      "Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in. Great for solving problems after it creates them." --Isaac Brock

                      by Beyondo98 on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 09:28:24 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  You Weren't Humorous (0+ / 0-)

                        You were offensive. Using a caricature to define a subset of people is repugnant.

                        it may surprise you to learn that there are a lot of gay people who don't support civil unions because they're still discriminatory, who don't support gay marriage now because it will happen eventually anyway, and who think hate crimes legislation is absurd.

                        Yes, there are a few.  But it would suprise me if there were "a lot."  BTW, there are some (myself included) who think civil unions do not go far enough, but also think they are a stepping stone to full equality.  Anyway, there are a small minority of gay people who do not want to raise the issue of civil unions, marriage, hate crimes legislation, etc., or anything at all concerning gay civil rights, because they put their tax bill ahead of all else.  Their boat is sailing along just fine, and they don't want to make any waves.  Again, they are few.

                        •  i'm sorry i'm not funny (0+ / 0-)

                          it really sucks trying to add levity to a conversation --in the face of being called names--and then being such a miserable failure at it.  my bad.

                          meantime, there's not one statement you've made above that is borne out by any empirical evidence you can provide.  but i can provide some anecdotal evidence that i've had discussions with a bunch of gay guys (well, maybe three) who don't give a fuck about any of this.  it's the gay lobby that's up in arms.  meanwhile, my buddies take a pragmatic long view of it, a view that doesn't swell the HRC's coffers despite making considerably more sense on every level.

                          "Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in. Great for solving problems after it creates them." --Isaac Brock

                          by Beyondo98 on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 09:39:45 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Oh, Good (0+ / 0-)

                            The "some of my best friends are gay" crap.  Are they in the "Village People"?

                            BTW, I don't like the HRC, either.  The NGLTF is much more effective.

                          •  did i say that? (0+ / 0-)

                            some of my best friends are indeed gay, but that wasn't even remotely my intent in mentioning them.  read my comment farther down, man.  i've been fighting for gay rights and acceptance for a very, very long time.  not that this is all that much of an accomplishment.  after all i didn't risk anything but social standing, the threat to which was easily parried by the fact that i'm really straight.  but this is not something i took up yesterday.

                            "Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in. Great for solving problems after it creates them." --Isaac Brock

                            by Beyondo98 on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 10:13:38 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

    •  Somehow, there's a difference in the framing. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      terjeanderson

      Directly encouraging someone to be proud of the orientation, i.e. if Mahoney were to say "I support GLBT rights and my opponent doesn't, which is sad because he's a gay American," would be much different than saying, "My opponent has a dirty little secret."  The former implies that there's something wrong with being gay, and that the voters of the district should withhold their vote from Foley because he's gay.  Anyways, the situation at the moment is such that Mahoney shouldn't need to be using the gay angle at all, can't he run on the total incompetence of the Republican-led guvmint?

      "No man should advocate a course in private that he's ashamed to admit in public." -George McGovern

      by Arturo52 on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 08:34:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That should be "the latter." n/t (0+ / 0-)

        "No man should advocate a course in private that he's ashamed to admit in public." -George McGovern

        by Arturo52 on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 08:35:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  no, mahoney can't (0+ / 0-)

        which is what makes this so much worse.  mahoney has a snowball's chance of winning, so his recourse has been this trash.

        "Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in. Great for solving problems after it creates them." --Isaac Brock

        by Beyondo98 on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 08:36:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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