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View Diary: Reasoning for the Iraq War (36 comments)

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  •  Rhetoric that works (none)
    Is nothing more than the sad truth. Hundreds dead, thousands maimed. Vietnam.

    My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. Sen Carl Schurz

    by Bill Rehm on Fri Apr 16, 2004 at 11:09:59 AM PDT

    •  We need to move the Tipping Point ... (none)
      Your rhetoric is painfully true, but the confused, disengaged and desensitized American populace will be slow to demand leaving for those reasons if they still the war has valid goals.  We have to knock down the foundation the neocons are using to stand on to preach their fog of confusion.

      "Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." - Thomas Jefferson

      by Wally on Fri Apr 16, 2004 at 11:33:47 AM PDT

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      •  I don't think so (none)
        This is a sad truth, but every dead American soldier or Marine is lost votes for Bush.

        Bush didn't create a base of support for this "changing the world" crap. He said we had to invade Iraq because of WMDs. Consequently, his attempt at switching to the neocon's grand vision isn't going to gain any traction with the US population. No groundwork was done.

        My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. Sen Carl Schurz

        by Bill Rehm on Fri Apr 16, 2004 at 12:38:41 PM PDT

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        •  He doesn't admit to the Neocon Grand Vision (none)
          He just stands by while the Mighty Wurlitzer churns and spins.  When necessary he performs a platitude filled photo op.  When you are that hollow and vain you don't need a lot of understanding to do your job, he clearly doesn't have it.

          Even when you tell many in America about the PNAC fantasies, they do not believe it is true.  The neocons are so brazen they put it there for all to see, but many hold world views that refuse to accept those delusions as being in the realm of possibility.

          They are in Iraq, in force - that is their groundwork.

          "Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." - Thomas Jefferson

          by Wally on Fri Apr 16, 2004 at 12:54:37 PM PDT

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          •  He doesn't admit it is PNAC (none)
            But in his last speech, he kept talking about the troops' sacrifices being worth it, because "we're changing the world".

            That's the PNAC reverse-domino theory in a nutshell.

            My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. Sen Carl Schurz

            by Bill Rehm on Fri Apr 16, 2004 at 12:57:56 PM PDT

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            •  Changing the World (none)
              Like you, I see that as chilling rhetoric, especially coming from the front man for as sinister a group as we have running this administration.

              But that type of vague talk would be interpreted many ways across the broad spectrum of the American electorate.  The challenge is to use that statement to back up the reality of what they are doing, and that what they are doing is wrong on every level.

              If we phrase it, "Yes, they are changing the world - to be dominated by American imperialism, to ruthlessly oppress other nations whose resources we covet", they may resonate with many.

              "Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." - Thomas Jefferson

              by Wally on Fri Apr 16, 2004 at 01:14:14 PM PDT

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              •  I feel you're missing my point (none)
                BushCo spent a lot of time laying the groundwork to go into Iraq. The groundwork they laid was "terrorism linked to Iraq" and "Iraq with WMDs".

                They laid no groundwork for "changing the world". In fact, Bush ran in 2000 on having a "humble foreign policy". At heart, the majority of Americans are isolationists. They're not going to jump on this boat, beyond the expected "support the troops" sentiment.

                As it becomes more and more clear that the Bush administration does not have the troops' best interests at heart, as the tours of duty extend and the death toll rises, support for Bush's war will continue to drop off. At one point, it was 70% pro. It's in the 50s now.

                My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. Sen Carl Schurz

                by Bill Rehm on Fri Apr 16, 2004 at 02:22:22 PM PDT

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                •  Bush's Support (none)
                  We both want his support to drop, but my concern is after all that his happened over the past 3 years, why hasn't his support stopped altogether?  I hope he gets voted out, but that he is still in the running is not encouraging.  Bush won't be going into much detail about "changing the world", that is a code phrase that shores up his support with the neocons and end-of-the-worlders.

                  He has our military in a trap they were only too willing to rush pell-mell into.  Now managing them is as simple as action-reaction for as long as they like.

                  After Nov public opinion won't matter to much if they are still in office.

                  If feel they used the reasons they did to get into Iraq as a smokescreen, as Wolfowitz said, "WMD was the one thing everyone could agree on".  

                  Acquiescence to imperialism is what they agreed on, fear is the screen they used to hide the truth, dereliction of duty is their legacy.

                  "Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." - Thomas Jefferson

                  by Wally on Fri Apr 16, 2004 at 03:18:57 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  Tipping Point Example - Tet (none)
      Occurs 1968, we leave 1973?  After how many more deaths?  After how much more outrage?  After accomplishing what?

      Is our tipping point sooner now? 5,800 - 1/10th?  3 years instead of 8 or so?

      And Vietnam isn't sitting on the world's second largest oil reserves.

      This is the same country and personally I believe the leaders of the 60's were nice guys compared to this adminstration.

      "Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." - Thomas Jefferson

      by Wally on Fri Apr 16, 2004 at 12:36:18 PM PDT

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