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View Diary: Congressman Mark Foley Emails to Intern (46 comments)

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  •  This diary makes an accusation... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    highacidity, kestrel9000, jlove1982

    ...a serious accusation, but provides no evidence to back it up.

    (except for that silly blogspot link that is probably his/hers)

    That's why it is a troll diary

      •  To me, this points out the futility of deciding (9+ / 0-)

        you're (or anyone deciding they're) the diary police.

        You don't know, so why not just leave the thing sit there. As Thumper the rabbit's mother said, if you don't have... well you know.

        It isn't that you can't dis*agree*, but why add an attack to the lack of agreement?

        Sorry, the "I'll whack this person with troll labels" attitude just bothers me. Why not just read another essay on the site instead?

        Be good to each other. It matters.

        by AllisonInSeattle on Sun Oct 01, 2006 at 01:50:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  that was unnecessary... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tlh lib

          At the time, these were unsubstantiated accusations.

          And now they are co-oberated.

          Unsubstantiated accusations = Troll Diary

          Turned out that the accusations were accurate.

          At the time... unsubstantiated.

          At the time...  Troll Diary

          •  A fact is a fact (9+ / 0-)

            and doesn't change its nature depending on whether you have corroboration to suit your satisfaction.  

            This is one of the reasons being a whistle-blower is so difficult.  Even those with an interest in your information and the ability to do something with it are prone to treat you like dirt.  It's very frustrating.

            Something we as bloggers need to learn.  As the blogs become an established and permanent part of the information flow, as with any other information nexus, people will plant leaks on  the blogs.  They needn't immediately be accepted as true, but one should either actively research or at least file away such posts rather than trying to drive off the source.  If bloggers are to be "citizen journalists", that means adopting journalistic practices.  In this case, kossacks acted like MSM journalists that blew something off because it wasn't in our existing narrative.  A true journalist follows where the facts lead and is not in a rush to judgement.

            •  I just lost my TU status (0+ / 0-)

              as I posted a lot of Freudian comments. I can see now why Freud changed his incest theory to phantasy of incest. Just suggesting incestual feelings, but no actions, has gotten me troll ratings.

              So many disagreed, so many who never studied Freud as I have, so I think the thing to do when the flaming starts is to troll rate back at your commenters. Make the process invalid when it is used because  someone heatedly disagrees with what you have said.

              This is a good example here of that mentality here and it needs to be addressed seriously.

          •  I still disagree (6+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            laurak, joejoejoe, Woody, grndrush, moiv, awakenow

            Some of the members here -- sounds like you're one, but irrelevant -- see dailyKos as a place that has to be "right". That has to be "policed". And they decide they they're going to keep it correct by being the policemen.

            I don't see it that way, and many others don't either. I see it as a place for a free flow of ideas. For people to post things that they know about from their unique perspective in the world. This diary completely fits that last category.

            Myself, I'd read it and think, "Hm. Interesting, wonder if that's true or not. The person sure sounds sincere!"

            People with the "diary police" mindset read it and start shrilling that the author is bad, that they should have written the diary differently, in other words, that the diary should be "Just The Way The Diary Police Want It" [tm]. For me, that reaction is embarassing.

            The DP (Diary Police) are embarassed by diaries that they think are off the beaten path, I'm embarassed by DP's(Diary Police)  browbeating diarists.

            If the diary sucks, it'll probably sink. End of story. No need to run around flailing arms pointing at it and making the author feel 2 inches tall.

            In my opinion. I'm not the only one to say this. Mentaldebris went on quite the rant about it a while back. I also think the DP concept comes from some sort of worship of how important the site is. It's a nice entity... but it shouldn't inspire cult-like worship, with devotional rules. (Otherwise phrased: Sheesh, lighten up, don't take this place or yourself of any one diary so seriously.) Again, just in my personal opinion.

            If you're having an exchange of ideas, the first thing to do is NOT start accusing the other person. Because then you're in some kind of a battle, not an exchange.

            Be good to each other. It matters.

            by AllisonInSeattle on Mon Oct 02, 2006 at 01:38:30 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I still disagree (0+ / 0-)

            Some of the members here -- sounds like you're one, but irrelevant -- see dailyKos as a place that has to be "right". That has to be "policed". And they decide they they're going to keep it correct by being the policemen.

            I don't see it that way, and many others don't either. I see it as a place for a free flow of ideas. For people to post things that they know about from their unique perspective in the world. This diary completely fits that last category.

            Myself, I'd read it and think, "Hm. Interesting, wonder if that's true or not. The person sure sounds sincere!"

            People with the "diary police" mindset read it and start shrilling that the author is bad, that they should have written the diary differently, in other words, that the diary should be "Just The Way The Diary Police Want It" [tm]. For me, that reaction is embarassing.

            The DP (Diary Police) are embarassed by diaries that they think are off the beaten path, I'm embarassed by DP's(Diary Police)  browbeating diarists.

            If the diary sucks, it'll probably sink. End of story. No need to run around flailing arms pointing at it and making the author feel 2 inches tall.

            In my opinion. I'm not the only one to say this. Mentaldebris went on quite the rant about it a while back. I also think the DP concept comes from some sort of worship of how important the site is. It's a nice entity... but it shouldn't inspire cult-like worship, with devotional rules. (Otherwise phrased: Sheesh, lighten up, don't take this place or yourself of any one diary so seriously.) Again, just in my personal opinion.

            If you're having an exchange of ideas, the first thing to do is NOT start accusing the other person. Because then you're in some kind of a battle, not an exchange.

            Be good to each other. It matters.

            by AllisonInSeattle on Mon Oct 02, 2006 at 01:39:09 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm with you Allison, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              AllisonInSeattle

              The same thing happened here, with even less reason that I could see (the diarist was someone with a good solid history in this case) for all the grief he was given. Even more disgraceful was the fact that neither of those (a couple of the site's most rabid "enforcers" IMO) who had completely savaged the author the day before, had the courage to apologize when, the very next day, the diarist's story was substantiated in every detail..

              Behold the Lambs of Kos.

              by greeseyparrot on Wed Oct 04, 2006 at 06:52:51 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Thanks for the post and moral courage (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                pb

                That's what it is, to post about this stuff here.

                Why, the "enforcers" might target me if I stand up to them! Better keep quiet!

                Bullies are bullies. I'm going to keep your meme, your frame, "the enforcers". It's a good call.

                Peace out -- and thanks for your work in support of positive Dems, which I'm just sure you're doing in addition to posting here.   :-)

                Be good to each other. It matters.

                by AllisonInSeattle on Wed Oct 04, 2006 at 11:58:20 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  I just had a feeling........n/t (0+ / 0-)

        Hastert, Boehner, Reynolds, Shimkus: Resign from Congress. NOW. Then: SHUT IT DOWN anyway.

        by kestrel9000 on Tue Oct 03, 2006 at 05:24:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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