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  •  Fuck that. (2+ / 0-)
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    greenearth, Cherrycoke

    I'm sorry, but fuck that.   I am the furthest thing from either a Naderite OR a ideological purist. I am a complete realist.  But at a certain point, you HAVE to stand for something.  On some things, you MUST take a stand.  And if I vote for someone who fails to take a stand on something as basic as NOT FUCKING TORTURING PEOPLE, then all I am doing is enabling  that moral coward.

    The argument that we should vote Democrat b/c when "we" are in charge things will be different is a WEAK argument.   If we vote for cowards assuming that they will change their spots when in office, then we are in for a rude wake-up call when Democrats do take over.   Because if Democrats are afraid to stand up now, they'll be just as afraid to stand up then.

    There are some things on which I will brook no compromise.  And not fucking torturing people is one of them.

    "Power concedes nothing without a demand; it never has and it never will." - Frederick Douglass

    by goblue72 on Wed Sep 27, 2006 at 11:32:23 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I tried the no voting thing myself. (1+ / 0-)
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      It doesn't work, especially when the religious right and war fanatics make sure they make it to the polls. So you vote for the people who voted against torture.  That's better than staying home and letting the torturers win an easy victory.  You also write letters to the editor, march, talk, make phone calls, pull your hair out, and do all you can do.  I agree that there's no compromising on torture, but nobody is asking you to do that if you vote for the people who voted against torture.  You can even write in names if you like, but do something to bring about change.  Staying home doesn't work.  I wish it did.  Then we wouldn't have to pull out all that hair.  I think it's time for me to call it a day or night.

      •  Learn to read (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Where the hell did I say I was refusing to vote for candidates who voted against tortue? Nowhere, that's where.   Try learning to read.  

        However, if someone fails to vote against torture, I am NOT fucking voting for them just because there is a (D) after there name.

        Fuck.  That.

        To quote the great abolitionist William Lloyd Garrison: "I am aware that many object to the severity of my language; but is there not cause for severity? I will be as harsh as truth, and as uncompromising as justice. On this subject, I do not wish to think, or to speak, or write, with moderation. No! no! Tell a man whose house is on fire to give a moderate alarm; tell him to moderately rescue his wife from the hands of the ravisher; tell the mother to gradually extricate her babe from the fire into which it has fallen; – but urge me not to use moderation in a cause like the present. I am in earnest – I will not equivocate – I will not excuse – I will not retreat a single inch – AND I WILL BE HEARD. The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal, and to hasten the resurrection of the dead."

        "Power concedes nothing without a demand; it never has and it never will." - Frederick Douglass

        by goblue72 on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 12:09:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I know how to read. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          You said "If the Dems do NOTHING about this, then I will stay home this November."  Since you stated Dems. in the plural, I assume you meant the Democratic Party doing nothing about stopping this bill.  Maybe that will happen while at the same time some Dems. will vote against the bill, but you said you will stay home this November if Dems. (plural) do nothing about this.  All your eloquence and words don't change the fact that staying home on election day doesn't work.  In my humble opinion, and having experienced the no voting thing myself, I think people who don't vote aren't taken seriously by most politicians unless they have a public voice in a major newspaper or some such thing.  All I suggested is that you vote for someone who voted against torture.  I didn't limit it to Dems., and I even suggested that you write in names if you can't find someone who pleases you.  I just don't think that staying home on election day accomplishes much.

          •  You keep your moral cowardice. (0+ / 0-)

            I'm sure it will keep you warm in the coming darkness.

            "Power concedes nothing without a demand; it never has and it never will." - Frederick Douglass

            by goblue72 on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 12:42:27 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I have no moral cowardice to keep. (0+ / 0-)

              Must be comforting to declare superiority by fiat instead of actions and to punish Democrats for what Republicans do.  Sounds familiar.

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