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View Diary: On Kicking Ass and Crashing Gates (380 comments)

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  •  It's not a question of whether one gives up... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shanepb

    ...but where one fights.  At some point, one has to question whether flagging a dead donkey is worth the effort.

    Questioning whether the Democratic Party is the vehicle to bring this country back in line with its principles and asperations is not the same as giving up that struggle.

    Dan Carmell

    •  hate to tell you this but, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TheBookPolice

      This site is not the place to pursue that option should you choose to pursue it.

      Changing French Fries to Freedom Fries was arguably this Republican Congress' biggest achievement. - Stephen Colbert

      by Scientician on Fri Sep 29, 2006 at 08:23:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Really? (0+ / 0-)

        So I cannot post my POV here?

        Dan Carmell

        •  No (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Scientician

          The stated purpose of this site is Democratic electoral victory and reform of the party and country where they need it.

          If you want to turn your back on either of those goals, you'll find few compatriots here, and little backing.

          Keeping felons well-read since 2001

          -6.13, -7.90 (now that I know what these numbers mean)

          by TheBookPolice on Fri Sep 29, 2006 at 08:37:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Guess I'm free to keep posting then... (0+ / 0-)

            ...since reform of the country is very much my aim.

            And I'm not looking for compatriots or backing, just an opportunity to express my opinions, even when they differ from the crowd.

            Dan Carmell

            •  Original thought need not apply (0+ / 0-)

              Dan,

              Just note that dailyKos is not a free speech zone, and criticism is not allowed.

            •  Evidently, to some (0+ / 0-)

              discussing achieving social justice from without the Officially Approved Party is a Thoughtcrime, punishable by troll ratings and calls for banning.  Get used to it if you ever mention doubts about the Democratic Party as a vehicle for reform.

              Isn't the "netroots" wonderful and inspiring?

              "Run, comrade, the old world is behind you!" -- Situationist graffito, 1968

              by Pesto on Fri Sep 29, 2006 at 09:33:10 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  See my comment above (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                shanepb

                I'm not making it up. It's the site's raison d'etre.

                I'll let someone else troll-rate you.

                Keeping felons well-read since 2001

                -6.13, -7.90 (now that I know what these numbers mean)

                by TheBookPolice on Fri Sep 29, 2006 at 09:36:20 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I've read Kos's description (0+ / 0-)

                  and he owns the site and he can do what he wants.  My user # is nearly 70,000 places before yours, so I don't really feel I need to be lectured by a relative newbie on how to engage in conversations here.  The lowest common demoninator at dKos is usually "be a yellow-dog Dem!" but that clearly, empirically, isn't the only thing people here care about.  The vast majority here are on what is now considered the political left, and want to come here to exchange information and ideas about making a more progressive society.  And I think Kos is cagey enough as a businessman to recognize that, without that interest in substantive politics (i.e., not just horse-racing the elections), this site would be much, much smaller and have less impact.

                  If you take something as basic as supporting a particular historical contingency like a political party as axiomatic, as unquestionable, as beyond civilized discussion, then you're being an idiot.  I'm sorry, but that's just true.  The Democratic Party is a tool, not an end in itself.  And if it needs to be replaced in order to achieve a just society, then so be it.

                  Now, maybe the Democratic Party really is the Last, Best Hope of Mankind.  If it is, persuade me of that.  But if I ask you, "What if the best way to win our goals is to work from without the Democratic Party or busy ourselves in non-electoral organizing?" and you respond not by attempting to persuade me that you're right but by calling down the troll-police -- which I seen a number of people doing in the past 24 hours -- then I'll assume that you're resorting to censorship for want of a substantive reply.

                  "Run, comrade, the old world is behind you!" -- Situationist graffito, 1968

                  by Pesto on Fri Sep 29, 2006 at 09:52:01 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I choose to believe (0+ / 0-)

                    that the Democratic Party is the best vessel in which to place my idealogical desires. If that vessel is  broken and leaking, I am just as well placed to fix it from the inside as someone on the outside.

                    In fact, to carry that analogy further, I feel that my interest in repairing that breach is greater for being on the inside, since I lose a part of myself every time another crack appears.

                    You're speaking in intentionally grandiose language ("last best hope of mankind"), by which you not-so-subtly ridicule me. That's fine; it's your right. But I feel that there are clear goals for this site, and I didn't, and don't, feel that you're giving those goals their due. Especially when you bandy about "ThoughtCrime" and snide remarks about netroots activism.

                    I may be an idealist, but I think that's better than being a cynic just for cynicism's sake.

                    And generally, I don't give a rat's ass about UIDs. People can be right or wrong, no matter how long ago they registered their account on Daily Kos.

                    Keeping felons well-read since 2001

                    -6.13, -7.90 (now that I know what these numbers mean)

                    by TheBookPolice on Fri Sep 29, 2006 at 10:23:14 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

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