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View Diary: On Kicking Ass and Crashing Gates (380 comments)

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  •  OH for christ's sake... (6+ / 0-)

    41 "turncoats"? F-- you. There were 12 Democratic senators (Lieberman counted for this purpose) who voted for the bill. The rest of them did not. Democrats consistently vote against Republican crap, and have done so on all sorts of issues that many of them have taken severe heat for. We lost control of the House because many of them had the courage in 1994 to vote their consciences instead of for their careers. How many votes have YOU made over the past 10 years that have threatened your job? I've lost two jobs because I said what needed to be said and what ultimately turned out to be right, so I don't have a helluva lot of patience for people who call other people cowards and turncoats when the name-callers decide to act like children. Sorry, but this issue really has me on edge.

    •  I don't have a legislative vote but (5+ / 0-)

      I WAS a republican in 1999, registered, and fairly well connected at a state level.  A combination of BUsh's primary Run, My sojourn in lawschool (a late life decision I was 30 at the time), and the passage of the Patriot act woke me up and caused me to once and for all turn my back on the party, and had led to the evolution of who and what I am now.

      I chose to be a lawyer because I'm passionate about the Rule of Law and in awe of how well the Uniquely American system has worked for so long (I'm no fool, I've spent my career hip deep in its flaws and shortcomings, but much like the dancing bear, the wonder of it is that it works at all).  
      The more you know about the law, the more you realize what an incredible document the Constitution really is.  The law that was passed yesterday took the heart of the bill of rights (amendments 4-8) and tossed them in a paper shredder.

      There are moments when you either must stand for something, whatever the cost, or be eternally damned as coward by history.  The Civil rights act was one such moment;  this was another.  And history will not be kind to those who voted "aye".

      (and just for one example, can you explain what possible excuse Sen. Neslon of FLA , currently ahead by 20+ points and facing a mentally ill opponent, could have had for his yes vote?)

      Knowledge is power Power Corrupts Study Hard Be Evil

      by Magorn on Fri Sep 29, 2006 at 08:33:17 AM PDT

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      •  Yes, and I don't have any problems with (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mary Julia

        calling the 12 Democrats who voted for this garbage turncoats." But let's not call the whole minority party up there "41 turncoats," because most Democrats voted morally on this issue. And let's also remember that Republicans voted en masse for this travesty, so let's first work on booting out the Republicans, and then we can work on getting folks who aren't morally challenged into primaries. Come on!!! I just don't want us to lose this thing because we're having an in-fight!!!!

        •  nO iwas referring only to the line crossers (0+ / 0-)

          and Yes I KNOW how important getting the Majorities back is, now more than ever so we can repeal this horrible law.  BUT with people like this on "our" side, will that really happen?

          Knowledge is power Power Corrupts Study Hard Be Evil

          by Magorn on Fri Sep 29, 2006 at 09:28:13 AM PDT

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          •  When we retake the majority - (0+ / 0-)

            can we keep their law in place just long enough to treat some of them to "questioning"?

            Constitutional Checks and Balances: it's not just a good idea, it's the Law.

            by EeDan on Fri Sep 29, 2006 at 09:44:51 AM PDT

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            •  I'll tell ya what.... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              I just got out of the car from listening to a CSPAN repeat of a press conference Nancy Pelosi, Murtha, and a couple other house members were having on a host of issues, and I was really impressed. She pointed out that the first vote the House will take after the vote to hopefully make her Speaker would be legislation that would sever the connection between lobbyists and legislators, and the fellow in the group who was a lawyer (I want to say Skelton) said that one of the things Democrats are worried about is that the legislation passed yesterday is so fatally flawed that it will reverse any convictions that come about because of its enaction. They all said many good things and I got a good sense of just how powerless the minority is in the House, where the Speaker controls everything.

              •  Convictions? We don't need no stinkin' (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                steve davis

                convictions.  There's simply a long list of characters in this administration and it's party that I believe are overdue for "questioning" in regards to their actions over the past 6 years.

                Constitutional Checks and Balances: it's not just a good idea, it's the Law.

                by EeDan on Fri Sep 29, 2006 at 11:48:38 AM PDT

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      •  Correct me if I'm wrong, (0+ / 0-)

        but when you referred to the '41 turncoats' weren't you talking about those in the Senate and in the House who voted 'Yes'?  

        If so, your math was wrong, but I agree with the sentiment.

        If not, whom did you mean?

        •  its 40-or 41 (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MikeTheLiberal, dmi

          depending on how you tally Lieberman, and yes that is combined house and Senate.  this is what I got from THomas:


          1. Carper (D-DE),  
          1. Landrieu (D-LA),  
          1. Lautenberg (D-NJ),  
          1. Lieberman (D-CT),  
          1. Stabenow (D-MI),  
          1. Rockefeller (D-WV),  
          1. Salazar (D-CO),  
          1. Nelson (D-FL),  
          1. Nelson (D-NE),  
          1. Menendez (D-NJ),  
          1. Johnson (D-SD),  


          1. Andrews
          1. Barrow
          1. Bean
          1. Bishop
          1. Boren
          1. Boswell
          1. Boyd
          1. Brown
          20. Chandler
          1. Cramer
          1. Cuellar
          1. Davis (AL)
          1. Davis (TN)
          1. Edwards
          1. Etheridge
          1. Ford
          28. Marshall 29. Matheson 30. McIntyre 31. Melancon
          1. Michaud
          1. Moore (KS)
          1. Peterson (MN)
          1. Pomeroy
          1. Ross
          1. Salazar
          1. Scott (GA)
          1. Spratt
          1. Tanner
          1. Taylor (MS)

          Knowledge is power Power Corrupts Study Hard Be Evil

          by Magorn on Fri Sep 29, 2006 at 08:58:17 AM PDT

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    •  Twelve in the Senate (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ignacio Magaloni

      And 27 in the House.

      I'm on edge, too.  I'm angry, and trying to decide how to channel that anger, where it will do the most good.

      Fix the problem; elect a Democrat.

      by MikeTheLiberal on Fri Sep 29, 2006 at 08:44:42 AM PDT

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      •  This is key: does it do more good give the (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mary Julia, MikeTheLiberal

        Party that voted nearly unanimously to trample on the Bill of Rights even more power, or to bide our time, support the dozens of Democrats who voted against this disgraceful bill, and build a better Democratic party?

        Because the two-party system is so legally institutionalized, we need to democratize and fight for our liberties in and through the Democratic Party. This is no shortcut, but it is the only viable way to fight this fascist wave.

        And I am proud of every Democrat who is fighting for us today.

        How many Republicans can you say are fighting for us?

        Let's get out there and sweat the work of liberty.

        Thanks, SusanG, for your clarity of thought, inspiring eloquence, and vision.  

        Peace is respect for another's rights. Benito Juarez

        by Ignacio Magaloni on Fri Sep 29, 2006 at 10:00:34 AM PDT

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