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  •  Isn't it a distressing comment on our society, (18+ / 0-)

    though, that it is this sex scandal that has brought the GOP to the brink of disaster?   It's not 911, it's not Iraq, it's not Katrina, it's not the Patriot Act, it's not the "Torture Bill", it's not K Street, it's not inaction on Global Warming, etc.,  etc..

    a hope that may come close to despair

    by epppie on Fri Oct 06, 2006 at 09:05:59 PM PDT

    •  Distressing, perhaps, but not new or surprising. (4+ / 0-)

      And at least as far as our ability to feel ok about making political hay from it goes, it's a real scandal, unlike Clinton and Lewinsky (should have been).

    •  Distressing yes... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      but not surprising.  It seems like that's all that will get the attention of anyone anymore.

      "No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown (-4.75, -7.13)

      by AUBoy2007 on Fri Oct 06, 2006 at 09:15:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  it really does slow down fri and sat (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        chicagoblueohio, epppie

        this week was so 24/7 maybe a break would be good, naw (keep typing)

        How do you know a Republican is lying? Ask one: If the Republicans can lower gas prices for 60 days before an election, why won't they do it all the time?

        by ca democrat on Fri Oct 06, 2006 at 09:56:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Here ...this should help (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          hhex65, serrano, epppie

 give this whole thing a nice Republican frame...

          Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

          Of course it hurts; you're being screwed by an elephant.

          by DelicateMonster on Fri Oct 06, 2006 at 10:56:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Love It!!! Other Shoes to Drop... (0+ / 0-)
            1. Only Repug pages were warned (talk about partisan??!!)--that's sick!!!
            1. Foley was a member of the Leadership of the House!!!
            1. The Repugs were less concerned w/his seat than his fundraising largesse in wealthy Palm Beach.  He raised and distributed millions--can u say 'hush money'???  Plus, this line of inquiry leads right smack into the corruption meme, DeLay, Ney, Abramoff, and Nancy Pelosi's 'Culture of Corruption'!!!

            Now they're trying to clamp off discussion w/the old Scottie-Boy 'under investigation' line due to the Ethics Committee--yeah, right!!!  Who has faith in them???  Keep pushing the 'who knew what when' line, as this diary does--we're not waiting on 'investigators' who have received campaign funds from the Big Guy!!!

            I think it's about time Pelosi reprised her old line "It looks like it will take a Woman to clean up the House."  Voters, particularly suburban women, are repelled by the whole mess, and I think this will have more resonance than their trying to label her a SF Dem.  Pelosi snapped back at them pretty well this week, and a little outraged indignation by a Mother would not be out of place....

    •  It's the timing (7+ / 0-)

      What is making this such a disaster is the culmination of those items you point out, plus Abramoff, plus elections within weeks.

      If this had happened even six months ago, it wouldn't be nearly so disastrous.

      If Katrina had happened now instead of last year, it would have been equally as disastrous, if not moreso.

      It's Nove. 7th right around the corner that is propelling this into a GOP nightmare. No time for spin,  no time for memories to cloud.

      Republicans: They can't protect our youth. They can't protect our country.

      by PatsBard on Fri Oct 06, 2006 at 09:15:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's the metaphor (11+ / 0-)

      It's not just the sex scandal that did it. The Foley affair stands as a metaphor for all that is wrong with the GOP: Cronyism, corruption, putting party before country, etc. Many people must still have seen the connection between the great GOP failures of Katrina, Iraq, etc. as abstract. The Foley coverup brings the disaster that is the GOP leadership to an individual human level. People can see that and make the connection to the larger issues.

      •  Yup. It makes it something easy to understand (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kilo50, BlueInARedState, epppie
        in your gut.

        And we know these folks like to lead by guts.

      •  I forgot incompetence n/t (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        zic, venatrix, epppie
      •  It's small enough to be graspable. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Creosote, monster, kilo50

        I think that makes a big difference.  The chains of accountability can be much harder to follow in so many of the other scandals.

        a hope that may come close to despair

        by epppie on Fri Oct 06, 2006 at 09:23:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  One more... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I don't know the right word for this.  Maybe someone can help.

        Foley was not just a poor choice for the Caucus on Missing and Exploited Childredn.  He was the worst possible choice.

        Richard Pombo is not just a poor choice for Chair of the Natural Resources Committee, he is the worst possible choice.

        Ted Stevens is not just a poor choice ... get my drift.

        What is the word for that?

        •  Brown, above all. (0+ / 0-)

          And they ignored good people like Clark and Shinsecki.  A couple of weeks ago Democracy Now had someone talking about the Iraq reconstruction, about how they actually had some good people there (including the original guy heading it), but they got rid of the good ones.

          a hope that may come close to despair

          by epppie on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 12:24:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  For some, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I think Foley can be that last nudge that helps them overcome their cognitive dissonance at having supported this administration for so long. I believe there are many decent but unenlightened Republican voters out there who are uncomfortable with each new revelation of this administration's stunning incompetence, but have until now found a way to excuse those episodes. The Foley scandal, so blatantly icky and so easy to understand, may give voters that final "out" they need in order to mentally divorce themselves once and for all from this whole gang of crooks, liars, and bumbling misfits.

    •  Katrina really started the ball rolling (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      catullus, BlueInARedState, epppie

      for many supporters.

      The torture dialogue also brought more people to see the light.

      Now, for many Evangelicals who have had questions brewing in the back of their minds, the Foley coverup is just too much to ignore. Sexual abuse of people who could be their children is just way over-the-top.

      I'd like to believe that all of these things, along with the terrible daily news out of Iraq and Afghanistan, will lead many people who supported the GOP and Bush to either cast their votes another way, or to stay home from the polls next month.

      I guess we'll see in another month's time what happens.

      I remember a time when the American President was the leader of the free world. ****** Repeat after me: "Neoconservatism has failed America."

      by land of the free on Fri Oct 06, 2006 at 09:22:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Again, anyone having trouble seeing this as (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      catullus, epppie

      a major issue should head ever to Glen Greenwald's site.  He makes a persuasive argument that this scandal proves that God exists.

    •  agree wholly. (5+ / 0-)

      culling from a comment i made a few days back:

      i resent the aspects of our culture...that result in the fact that it's THIS manner of shoe to drop to make such a resoundingly bracing thud. any one of the countless previous examples lies, violations of trust, misdeeds, incompetence would--in a sane world--have been more than sufficient to sour the public...

      i'm sorry that i'll take it, but--if it at last must be THIS that drives home to folks that can't be bothered with  habeus corpus, extraordinary rendition, falsification of data, deaf ear to intelligence, etc. etc.--i'll take it. if it's this that--FINALLY--gets people thinking that, hey, maybe the republicans might not be all that after all, oh hell yes, i'll tkae it.

      still, i hear you. i do. the "i'll take it" sentiment is purely pragmatic. in my heart, it makes me sad that this is what may get us where we'd like to be, when any one of the prior failings of the public trust should have been sufficient.

      •  I agree 100% (4+ / 0-)

        The purist in me wants people to wake the hell up and see ALL the scandals, some of which even I have forgotten because there have been so many. I want them to be outraged over the Terry Schaivo debacle, the Plame thing, all the things you mentioned above, and all the crap that Michael Moore brought to light in F/9-11.

        Instead, it is once again about sex.

        But, if it works, then "mission accomplished."

        Politics is like driving...if you want to go backwards, choose R. If you want to move forward, choose D.

        by fireflynw on Fri Oct 06, 2006 at 10:04:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I, too, want people to see ALL the scandals! (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          April Follies, epppie

          However, the other scandals, Schiavo, Plame, Delay, Abramoff, et al., require a certain minimum level of intelligence to understand. It takes some effort to connect the dots. Foley requires NOTHING. It's about SEX!!! And, if there's anything these wackos understand, it's sex. They just know that there are people out there having sex and enjoying it and they are hopping mad about it. If it were a female page who had received "naughty emails" it would have been her fault for enticing a 52 year old man. But, pickin' on my boys!!! That's just not done!!

          This scandal is breathtakingly easy for them to understand. There are no dots to connect. This does not require any analytical thinking. No one has to do any math or read any multisyllabic words. They only need to know one thing: it's about sex.

          When Dale Bumpers was defending Clinton in the Senate trial he said that when people say it's not about the money, it's about the money. And, when they say it's not about the sex, it's about the sex.

          Believe me, for the fundies, this is about the sex.

      •  But this is no small issue. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rfahey22, epppie, Steffo

        The Foley scandal represents a public safety issue and a law enforcement issue. The Republicans are showing that they cannot handle the problem of sex offenders in our communities, which  is a foreground consideration for many middle-class suburban families. Why are there so many news items every week featuring women who have been abducted/raped/murdered, and news items featuring children who have been abducted/raped/murdered? It is because people are being injured and killed, and in large numbers. Families are being destroyed. Communities are being torn asunder. And the government, on all levels, is having a difficult time dealing with sex offenders and sexual violence. Now the Republicans have shown that they are not up to the task of tackling this critical problem. The Republicans have traditionally thought of themselves as a law-and-order party, and have painted the Democrats as soft on crime. But now the tables have been turned, and I for one think that the American people are anxious for new leadership.

        •  it's also one the public can digest (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          catullus, Creosote, epppie

          Many people in this country simply aren't engaged in politics, and trust that those in Congress know much more about the issues than they do.  Therefore, many people are willing to defer to their elected representatives on complex issues such as Iraq, terrorism, etc., on the assumption that their representatives arrived at their positions after a great deal of reflection and based upon information to which ordinary citizens don't have access.  It is pretty easy for people to wrap their heads around the Foley scandal, however, and there is only one clear, morally acceptable position - that Foley's actions were inappropriate and that those covering for him should be punished.  When people discover that their representatives are lying on this one easy issue, it can make them question whether the representatives are also lying about more complex issues that the citizens themselves don't fully understand.  It makes people who aren't very engaged in politics doubt the entire judgment process of their elected leaders - that is why this scandal could potentially be so useful for us.  

          The pleasure of hating...eats into the heart of religion...[and] makes patriotism an excuse for carrying fire, pestilence, and famine into other lands. - W. Haz

          by rfahey22 on Fri Oct 06, 2006 at 10:33:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  A Tie-In (0+ / 0-)

        between the two...evoke pix of Denny Hastert being Waterboarded (do they make 'em that big???) and Foley ending up in Gitmo thru extraordinary rendition...we'd send Boehner, but I heard the golf stinks down there..

    •  Straw that broke the camel's back? (4+ / 0-)

      In a culture dominated by sex, what else would we expect?

      •  we kept hoping Bush (0+ / 0-)

        would just get a blowjob from an intern and we could be through with him.

        Well, it wasn't Bush, but it probably was a blowjob or three.  

        Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps. - Emo Philips

        by AlyoshaKaramazov on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 07:31:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I think because... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      epppie, Nimbus

      ...the GOP has leaned so heavily on it's base for their success.  Their base doesn't care about much more than sex.  God, Guns and Gays really are what they're all about.  Get on the wrong side of them on ANY of these issues and they'll bolt.

      It's not about what the rest of the country thinks, but that 36% voting block that always supports republicans no matter how much they're screwing them over.  Those are those "some of the people all of the time".  They can always find enough "some of the people some of the time" to fool into voting for them, but they need that die hard block.

      If a democrat demands accountability in the Capital and no one covers it, does he make a sound?

      by DawnG on Fri Oct 06, 2006 at 09:56:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Incompetence, Evil, and Lies (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Incompetence, Evil, and Lies
      And these god damned Flies

      Was kept
      And made
      A prize

      Was not
      Very wise

      On top
      Of these
      They gave
      Us LIES

      These were not

      Easy to hide

      Even from
      Our ignorant side

      The slow awoke
      At what came next
      Evil  PREDATION
      Conflated with Sex

      Slow ones soon
      Started to shout.
      “It’s time to throw
      All these Bums Out”!

      Thank their god
      Scandal is here
      Our slow ones nod
      So let’s have a beer.

      He who read

      The pet goat Now gets fed

      A big no vote


      "We're the people who live. They ain't gonna wipe us out. Why we're the people--we go on." -Ma Joad in "Grapes of Wrath"(Steinbeck)

      by Ma Joad on Fri Oct 06, 2006 at 10:15:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Nope (0+ / 0-)

      Because it's still corruption and cover-up and abuse of power and because it is drawing attention to all those other things...

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