Skip to main content

View Diary: Burden of proof, the South and Daily Kos. (242 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Thank you, Nan... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    peace voter, nancelot, gpm

    My husband had his reservations about the original diary from the beginning; and after an unfruitful search for news on Google, was convinced the story was bogus.

    I reacted very emotionally to the original diary because, although I haven't been threatened or beaten up, I've gotten nasty comments and middle fingers out the window on the road because of my pro-Democratic bumperstickers. I'm sure we all have, from time to time, which is scary in and unto itself.

    Especially, I might add, because my bumperstickers are a lot less inflammatory than others I could put up. (It's campaign season, so I feel I'm being more productive by wearing bumperstickers that support local Dem candidates rather than put down Repugs.)

    IMO, I think the story in the diary touched a nerve with a lot of us, not because of the South or "redneck" stereotypes or other surface-level issues relating to stickers you put on your car...but because the situation, real or imagined, was a stark reminder that we liberals continue to be vilified, demonized, and bullied at every turn. I'm sure we all fear that something like this really could happen to one of us, because of the wonderful climate of Americans vs. Americans that Our Dear Uniter has created for us.

    Contrary to what Hind2 implied in a comment upthread (something to the effect of, "what are you doing here instead of sitting in the hospital with your housemate?" Well, I'm willing to give Indy a pass on that one because 1) non-relations aren't often allowed to be in the hospital room with non-relations, esp. if said victim is in the ICU and needs round-the-clock, sanitized nursing care. And 2) who's to say (if this story is true) that Indy isn't in a Starbuck's near the hospital venting all her feelings on the Wi-Fi? Maybe in a lonely town in Red America, fellow Kossacks are the only ones she can turn to.

    That--and the fact that it's just fucking callous to blow off another person's pain as being "fake" when maybe it isn't--is why I'm reserving judgment (for now). Fuckall, I thought we were supposed to be liberals, ummm, who like, CARE about the downtrodden and fucked-on?

    •  Interesting insight. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      boofdah, gpm

      I think we all bring our own "stuff" to other peoples diaries and posts, whether they are data-driven, news driven, or emotionally driven. I've lived long enough to believe that if I can't learn something about myself--even from a troll post, or a bogus diary--I'm not trying hard enough. There are many flaws to my character, I would like to leave this world knowing that hubris isn't one of them!!

      I think your comment was very poignant and important. I wish others could take the time and absorb your words.

      Thank you.

      nan

        •  this is nans email... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Buckeye BattleCry

          indy2windy@aol.com.  The original diary was written by a person with the username Indy.  Get a clue.

          •  Wait a second ... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kenoyer130

            you're saying nancelot = indy675 = DTW?  I'm not sure I can go that far.  I'm no writing expert, but the fact that nancelot uses clear, complete, well-punctuated sentences, makes me suspect she's not the same as indy675.

            ----------------
            The trouble with the world is that the stupid are always cocksure and the intelligent are always filled with doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

            by gpm on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 07:57:37 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Look at indy's diaries (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gpm, kenoyer130

              They are written in clear, complete, well-punctuated sentences.

              I can't say anything about nancelot, but I'm nearly conviced that TDW and indy675 are the same person.  The writing style is remarkably similar.

              •  Yeah, TDW = indy675. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Buckeye BattleCry, kenoyer130

                Other diarists have made this case pretty effectively, and I believe that.  I'm not ready to throw nancelot in there.  In addition to the writing style, she also seems less alarmist than the other "two."  I'm not saying she's NOT indy675, I just see no reason to believe so.

                ----------------
                The trouble with the world is that the stupid are always cocksure and the intelligent are always filled with doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

                by gpm on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 08:13:50 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Ok, I've done some digging (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  gpm, kenoyer130

                  Only using google, nothing else.  I've found that indy675 does indeed use the background information (vietnam veteran, ex-Navy hospital corps, same age) that is used by TDW.  

                  •  And a person with the **same name** (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    gpm, kenoyer130

                    is a clinical researcher at an institute of psychophysiology in Georgia.  Wow, this is getting strange.

                    •  Think we're part of an experiment or something? (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      kenoyer130

                      That thought had crossed my mind.  I find it hard to believe somebody would be so brazen about posting utter BS if the only payoff was some warm fuzzies from other Kossacks.

                      ----------------
                      The trouble with the world is that the stupid are always cocksure and the intelligent are always filled with doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

                      by gpm on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 09:36:53 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I don't know what's going on (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        kenoyer130

                        There are so many email addys and usernames I'm finding all over the blogosphere that I don't know how to bring it all together yet.

                      •  Ok, I think the .. (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        kenoyer130

                        "Institute of Applied Psychophysiology" in Georgia doesn't actually exist. The only links I can find to it go lead to some weird blog.

                        •  Wow. This is a weird, weird episode. (NT) (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          kenoyer130

                          ----------------
                          The trouble with the world is that the stupid are always cocksure and the intelligent are always filled with doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

                          by gpm on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 11:03:45 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  I don't know how to get into it all (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Hind2, kenoyer130

                            without giving out personal information, so I'm going to be careful what I write.  Anyway, I've tracked about a half dozen blogs with low traffic, a gazillion email addresses, many blogger profiles, all leading to this one diarist.  She's added PhD and a few other nifty degrees to her name on at least one website.  Whether they're legit I have no idea. The information she gave about TDW (found TDW's posts as well) is the same information she uses to describe herself on other websites.

                            I'm convinced she's a true progressive and for the life of me I can't figure out why this is going down the way it's going down.

                          •  wow... nice job folks. (0+ / 0-)

                            those are some pretty crazy things happening.  It is very mental.  Just shows that there are people in need of help from every walk of life.  Mabey it was a joke but I doubt it.  Going through the trouble of continuing to post under different names and Indy is wierd.  She carried on little messaging back and forth with herself.  Thats just crazy.

          •  You (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kenoyer130

            have gone off the rails now. I have contacted Markos.

            •  gone off the rails for clicking... (0+ / 1-)
              Recommended by:
              Hidden by:
              nancelot

              on your name?  You are Indy.  Just admit it.  Its really really sad you have to do this to yourself.  You have been exposed.  Move on.  Or just quit posting under your current names and create a new one.  Get a fresh start.  I am not trying to be mean.  Your address was easily seen by clicking on your name.  

              I have contacted Markos about your multiple user names and your totally bogus diary.

          •  I don't think so (0+ / 0-)

            Nancelot is listed in the dkosopedia local section.  This user is not even close to Georgia.

          •  DUDE give her a break! (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            boofdah

            boofdah I mean. So nan writes something nice and we're all supposed to do research on her case?

            Your point on the original diarist being a complete FRAUD is well taken by me. Beleive me I had to tell my wife to chill out when she was showing me this and tell her I didn't buy it either. But so she wants to give the diarist the benefit of the dought that's her business. So she's of a different mind don't go jumping on her case.

            And for someone who's been preaching to other kosacks that this board is nothing but a forum for political activism and that's it--it really helps us all that you have the time to sit around and do internet stalking on kosack user names. Thanks, man. Really appreciate your energies getting out the vote.

            •  do what? (0+ / 0-)

              are you talking about me?  I never said anything about this only being a forum for political activism.  Go back and check.

              Also all I did was click on her name to read some of her diaries....  the only thing on the screen is her email address.  All the other things that went down in this post were other peoples doing.  But its pretty much been proven beyond any reasonable doubt that Nan is in fact Indy and TDW.  This isnt about stalking anyone... it goes to show how infiltrated this site is with crazies.  

              As far as how much time I put into the information I gathered... it was about 10 minutes.

            •  Thanks honey--gotta love liberal chivalry. ;) (0+ / 0-)

              n/t

    •  but if it is made up.... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      scrutinizer

      who is villifying you?  If there are plenty of real examples use them.  But to use a totally fabricated one to defend your point is ridiculous.  Thats like me saying people hate me because I wear brown shoes... then telling you a story about people that beat me up because of brown shoes.... then me conceding that the story was bullshit.... then saying it could have been true... then you agreeing with me that people hate me because of my brown shoes.

      but because the situation, real or imagined, was a stark reminder that we liberals continue to be vilified, demonized, and bullied at every turn. I'm sure we all fear that something like this really could happen to one of us, because of the wonderful climate of Americans vs. Americans that Our Dear Uniter has created for us.

      •  Ummm...I think I just did. (0+ / 0-)

        although I haven't been threatened or beaten up, I've gotten nasty comments and middle fingers out the window on the road because of my pro-Democratic bumperstickers.

        If you want to hear more vilifying and stirring up the hate base, you need only to tune into Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, Mike Savage, or any other (very much-worshipped) media personality who has on more than one occasion, defended and even encouraged demeaning behavior and even violence against liberals.

      •  If you ask journalists who pursue local news (0+ / 0-)

        wonder if they will not confirm that getting news that used to be public information has become almost impossible.  I read an article about the how "The Patriot Act" has changed everything and by refusing to reveal information, it reduces staff costs etc.

        Wish I could remember where I read the article but I sure don't.  But as I recalled the article covered events very similar to this one in discussion.  Newspapers used to report car accidents, neighbor conflicts, stabbings, etc and those were the kinds of events that are not being reported because law enforcement can now claim right to confidentiality.

        It is for this reason that I would hesitate to decide one way or the other about the voracity of this case.  And who and when IC units allow those beyond family members into visit is up in the air also.  My husband in presently in a Medical Intensive Unit and was admitted there on Sat. AM.  He was transported by ambulance, red light and siren to an area medical center, one of the major med centers here.  I have been very surprised at the visiting hours - 8:30AM-7:30PM, 9:00PM-11:00PM and there is a family waiting room in which family members can spend the night.  No sleeping in patient rooms.  I add all this to say that they don't define family members but ask that family members designate a spokesperson and that is the person with whom the hospital staff will interact and answer questions.

        This is Kansas and their policies might vary from Georgia but I know my husband's favorite cousin has   been able to get the staff to take a phone to Hub's room so that she could talk to him yesterday, of course, she told them she was his sister.  So I don't ask for a phone to tbe taken because I can drive up.  He can ask his nurse to bring a cell phone (may be satilite phone, so he can call me)

        This information may have no bearing on this situation but I thought it offers another aspect with which to make a comparison.

        Since there isn't one particular definition for us liberals I would encourage all to be very careful about say, "we liberals are OR supposed to be" because it is going to be a inaccurate.  We vary across the spectrum and tend to make decisions based on our personal experiences in life just like folks on the other side or maybe what kind of doctrination one might have been spoon fed since youth.  And the later part of the statement might have more to do with the last generation and it may or may not apply more to the rightwing Christian movement.  I believe it does but that is just my experience.

        Until and unless a family member steps forward to validate or prove this story false, I don't see how anyone can decide one way or another.  And I fail to see what validity it has for our political purposes right now on dkos.  It might distract discussion from the important races that need our support to win in Nov. and it might work to split the dkos participants to one side or another but it is not going to develop into a national movement (or int'l, sorry left out part of our population)to move the country one way or another at this point in time.

        So instead of haggling with each other over this event why not find a politicians you can throw yourself behind and put your energies to excellent use.  At a later time when more facts can be uncovered there is no reason one couldn't return to if if you believe there is reason.

        Off to the MICU to see how Hub is doing today, already talked to the doc, but need to tell Hub nNO WAY he is going home today.  If anyone believes in them and have any extra prayers send them our way, we can use them right now.

        Peace be with you,
        PaintyKat

        Thou Shalt NOT Whine...Get to WORK! Just a painty kat - NOT that be meanie cat

        by PaintyKat on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 12:59:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  How (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gpm

      do you care about the 'downtrodden and fucked-on' when you don't believe that the person is 'downtrodden and fucked-on'?

      That--and the fact that it's just fucking callous to blow off another person's pain as being "fake" when maybe it isn't--is why I'm reserving judgment (for now). Fuckall, I thought we were supposed to be liberals, ummm, who like, CARE about the downtrodden and fucked-on?

      Do you remember the incident when two actors were accused of rape in Tennessee? The story was that she went to their trailer and some moments later, she ran screaming and naked from the trailer. Now at first, I didn't doubt her, or rather, I didn't immediately claim that she lied. But then it came out later that the woman went to the actors' hotel room and had sex with them the night before, well, I became skeptical.

      Now a person would have to be an utter jackass to immediately conclude that a woman is lying (while having nothing to go on to make this conclusion) when she claims rape.

      But what if the story changes? What if she left something out, something as important as visiting the accused the night before and having sex with one or both? Would I be callous if I questioned why she visited the actors the night before? I don't know about you, but if I was raped at the hotel, I seriously doubt I'd visit them the next day, alone. Why would you be afraid to report the rape at the hotel but not in the trailer? I tried on every conceivable explanation as to why she didn't press charges the first time and none of these 'rationalizations' made any sense. The charges were thrown out by the way. Now how is it possible to sympathize with a rape victim who wasn't raped? I can feel sympathy for mental issues (if there were any), but not for being raped, since she wasn't. And you want people to show more sympathy for a victim who many here don't believe exists. In other words, how do we sympathize with an assault victim when we don't believe (or have doubts) an assault took place?

      IMO, I think the story in the diary touched a nerve with a lot of us, not because of the South or "redneck" stereotypes

      Yes, for some us, it was the Southern stereotypes. Being emotional doesn't exactly explain her remarks since she's made similar ones before she wrote this diary.

      I'm sure we all fear that something like this really could happen to one of us,

      Fear displaying a bumper sticker? Not at all.

      The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

      by callmecassandra on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 11:29:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Like I said above, I'm reserving judgment... (0+ / 0-)

        ...and I too am from the South, and I didn't take the original diary quite as personally as some Kossacks did, evidently.

        I'm reserving judgment because this is overall a caring community--and whether or not this incident really did take place, seriously, what is wrong with showing some human compassion for a fellow Kossack?

        If it turns out that we really did get "punk'd" (as my husband puts it), then yes, I'll judge away, because making up a story like this just to get sympathy from other people really IS a shitty thing to do.

        •  You're not getting me. (0+ / 0-)

          Many people don't believe the story. Period. So why should they show sympathy for a situation that they don't believe (with good reason) occurred? Some of us doubted the story, so why are asking questions wrong or should be held back until 'further notice'?

          The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

          by callmecassandra on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 09:01:59 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Asking questions isn't wrong (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            boofdah

            Condemning Kossacks who aren't as well-informed and/or don't have time to engage in paranoid internet sluething is a little out-of-line imnsho.

            •  And that's why I said, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              boofdah

              skepticism isn't cruelty unless it's laced with nastiness. Asking questions with good reason, even with or without the sleuthing, isn't out of line. And not wanting to be played for a chump isn't out of line either. People were considering starting a fund for this person who's most likely a liar. Actually, I think she was lying. That's called a scam.

              Now if people were calling the well-wishers stupid or fools, this I do believe was out of line. I very much prefer to conversate with people who have a heart. And if the majority here lacked compassion, I wouldn't give a damn if they got scammed.

              The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

              by callmecassandra on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 03:36:09 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  check out nancelots email.... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Buckeye BattleCry

      indy something or other..... hmmm.  wonder if that is just happen chance that indy was the same tag as the person who wrote the original false diary?  

    •  I am an RN... (0+ / 0-)

      and friends come into the hospital all the time.  If family is okay with them being in the room we are as well.  I care.  Especially about my mother that lives about 20 mintues from where the fake incident took place and who drives a car with a W slashed out bumper sticker.  So I called her and when she said she had heard nothing about it I decided to verify it through another source.  I didnt want my mom to be scared to drive around and by that point I had a hunch that this was bogus.

      You are getting played.  If you cant see that I am not sure what it will take.  Indy is to say that they are not at starbucks venting frustration.  I never said that Indy should be at the hospital by the way.  Some other people did but I didnt.  I did say that if they want to catch the people they should get it in the local papers because they knew nothing of it.

      Fuckall, I thought we were supposed to be liberals, ummmm, who like, CARE about the truth?  

      Get a clue.

    •  This may be a difference in the way you and I (0+ / 0-)

      see progressivism, but it seems to me that our first obligation is to accuracy, even at the peril of seeming unsympathetic.

      But I make no claim that this is what progressivism is, or that you should believe as I do.  It's just my approach.

      ----------------
      The trouble with the world is that the stupid are always cocksure and the intelligent are always filled with doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

      by gpm on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 07:58:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

  • Recommended (144)
  • Community (60)
  • Memorial Day (31)
  • Culture (31)
  • Environment (30)
  • Republicans (27)
  • Elections (23)
  • 2016 (23)
  • Spam (22)
  • GOP (20)
  • Civil Rights (20)
  • Bernie Sanders (19)
  • Science (19)
  • Education (19)
  • Media (18)
  • Climate Change (18)
  • Labor (18)
  • Rescued (18)
  • Law (16)
  • Trans-Pacific Partnership (15)
  • Click here for the mobile view of the site