Skip to main content

View Diary: CO-05: Thugs (178 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Well (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kraant

    Such behavior is wrong. I don't care what party does it. It's wrong.

    http://www.keen.com/jiacinto For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

    by jiacinto on Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 09:21:54 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  of course (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kraant, fjciii

      I'm not condoning any of this at all.

      It's just that you can take the NJ incident, and change one word in Kos' post. He's blaming the GOP even though there's no proof of that. I imagine he would not accept if the GOP blamed the Dems for the Kean incident (which they are doing, of course).

      •  also (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kraant

        All the "me too" posters are also blaming the GOP without any evidence.

        •  Politburo, (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kraant, brownsox, ms badger

          I will stipulate that Democratic thugs chained the doors shut and broke the keys of in the locks, if you will stipulate that Republican operatives broke into Fawcett's offices, spread around skunk smell, and sent death threats .

          Deal?

          "In the beginning the universe was created. This has been widely criticized and generally regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

          by LithiumCola on Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 09:36:10 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  i see no reason to do that.. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kraant

            I don't see evidence to either of those stipulations and see no reason why I would agree to either.

            Also, your thinking seems to basically be "yeah, but they were worse!" I find that weak and sad.

            •  Thank you for responding to my (0+ / 0-)

              rhetorical point by calling me weak and sad.

              "In the beginning the universe was created. This has been widely criticized and generally regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

              by LithiumCola on Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 09:55:22 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  well (0+ / 0-)

                I see nothing of merit in a "but they were worse!" argument and stand by my statement. Furthermore I clearly disagreed with the assumptions in your "rhetorical point".

                •  Sorry, (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Politburo

                  I made no assumptions.  I made a condtional statement.  "If . . . then."  And I suppose I was arguing by proxy with the NJ spokesperson, who did say the lock-job was done by Democratic operatives.

                  As for the "they were worse" argument, you seem to think I am defending the locking of office doors.  I am not.  I was granting the strongest possible point: that Democratic operatives locked Republican office doors.

                  Your entire point was that Kos was biased: he would easily accept Republican shenanigans, but deny Democratic shenanigans.  My point was: let's stipulate both and debate that.

                  You responded by saying that the "but they were worse" argument is no good.  Which, again, makes the mistake of assuming your opponent is defending something.  I was not.

                  But, really, the point where you started insulting me was the point I stopped being willing to be persuaded, even if your points are good ones.

                  Give me a while to cool off.

                  "In the beginning the universe was created. This has been widely criticized and generally regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

                  by LithiumCola on Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 10:13:43 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  not so much biased.. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    LithiumCola

                    My point isn't really that kos is biased.. I don't think that's really a point since we all know it to be the case.

                    My point, as I also described in a post below, is that the assumption that all GOPists believe this is an acceptable tactic, or the assumption that the actual leaders of the GOP are behind this has no merit. Furthermore, we get outraged when places like FR or people like Rush make these kinds of assumptions. So why would we go ahead and do the same thing?

                    As for the misunderstanding above, I apologize. I read your bolding of "death threats" to mean "yeah we did something, but they had death threats", i.e. "They were worse"

                    •  Actually, upon further review, (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Politburo

                      my internal football referee says I was relying on a "they were worse" argument; I didn't take myself to be defending anything, but it sure looks that way.  I concede the point.  

                      Apology accepted, since offered, but don't worry about it.

                      "In the beginning the universe was created. This has been widely criticized and generally regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

                      by LithiumCola on Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 10:33:49 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

          •  people vandalize... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            LithiumCola

            ...but parties do not.  Campaigns sometimes vandalize bu that's another matter.

            Just because you're a democrat or a republican doesn't mean the democratic party or the republican party is to blame for every idiotic illegal thing you do.

            Just saying.

            We should treat this for what it is.  a person or a group of people commiting a politically motivated crime.  That doesn't make it a conspiracy and it shouldn't be treated so.

            If a democrat demands accountability in the Capital and no one covers it, does he make a sound?

            by DawnG on Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 10:11:30 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm not sure what you mean by (0+ / 0-)

              "conspiracy."  Is rampant robo-calling a conspiracy?  That seems like a funny word for it.

              I agree, of course, that a political party is not to blame for every idiotic thing an alleged member of the party does.

              "In the beginning the universe was created. This has been widely criticized and generally regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

              by LithiumCola on Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 10:19:33 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  this is not a story about rapant robo-calling... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                LithiumCola

                ...this is a story about a campaign office being vandalized.  Robo-calling is not vandalism.

                That is what I was talking about.  Taking an act of vandalism and using it to validate certain pre-conceived notions.  We don't know who did this.  We shouldn't be talking as if we do.  We should not be using it to chastize the GOP as if they ordered the "hit".

                Just saying.

                If a democrat demands accountability in the Capital and no one covers it, does he make a sound?

                by DawnG on Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 10:39:19 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Fair enough. (0+ / 0-)

                  And remind me never to attempt to stipulate anything for the purposes of debate . . . even if I use the word "stipulate".  People will jump on you as if you meant it really.

                  "In the beginning the universe was created. This has been widely criticized and generally regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

                  by LithiumCola on Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 10:55:23 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, and there's no such thing as motive. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kraant, kestrel9000

          Please.

          Let's be reasonable.

          •  not sure what that means.. (0+ / 0-)

            Sounds like you're using circumstantial evidence to convict a large group of people based on the actions of a few.

            •  I don't recall seeing my computer screen (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              kestrel9000

              and desk in a jury box or court of law.

              I'm making some general discussion here, not prosecuting anyone.

              You acted like it wasn't even reasonable to assume Republicans did this. And I say it is, because they have the best motivation.

              Of the large group of people with motivation to do something like this, one or two or a few actually carried out the act.

              •  no (0+ / 0-)

                Of course it's reasonable to think that the person or persons who did this identify with the GOP. What I don't think is reasonable is this:

                Bereft of ideas, with no record to run on, Republicans are resorting to such vile tactics to hold power. They hate democracy, they hate having the voters hold them accountable, they hate being challenged.

                We are seeing them for what they're worth, clearer than ever before.

                First off this rhetoric is truly Coulter-esque. Switch one word and you could have something that Rush or Hannity spew on their shows.

                Furthermore, the clear implication is that all Republicans believe in these sorts of tactics and we all know that's just not the case. There's also a clear implication that the GOP has orchestrated these actions and there is zero evidence to support that claim.

                That is what my posts in this thread have been about.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site