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View Diary: Today is the end of the electronic voting machine (372 comments)

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  •  Yeah, right. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SlackerInc, lotlizard

    If you choose to show it to someone, then it's not secret.

    We'll see if you're as blithe about it when the Republicans start giving out free bottles of hooch to homeless people in exchange for filling out their "secret" ballots under watchful Republican eyes.

    •  Exactly. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gkn

      This would be my sole objection to vote by mail.  You will have "helpers" helping the elderly, teenagers, people dependent on others for support, etc...

      But, totally agree that electronic voting machines should be thrown on the scrapheap of history.  This cannot happen soon enough.

      •  What about the idea that (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mariva, jkusters

        the elderly, teenagers, people dependent on others for support, etc are generally either

        A) not that good at making it to physical polling locations anyway
        B) not that good at making informed decisions by themselves anyway

        Listen, democracy is great, but there will always be a certain % of the population that is uncaring, stupid, willfully ignorant or some combination of the above. This population segment is especially vulnerable to having their vote manipulated in some way, if they even vote at all.

        A point of perspective: I am homeless right now. I voted before I was homeless, but let me tell you, after even half a day spent on Portland's rainy streets, I am convinced that the people who live on the streets care less about elections than they do about staying dry, reasonably warm and fed - and justifiably so. So if you're offering me a 40 in exchange for a few bubbles on a piece of paper, I'm all for it. The only moral issue here is that my franchise is being manipulated, but the only people who really care about that are people who are safe, warm, well-fed and monied. I would be a lot more inclined to care about my exercise of the franchise if those people offered me a place to stay and a helping hand.

        The franchise isn't for everyone. In a free society, everyone should be allowed to have their voice heard, but by no means should everyone be required to vote. The system, amazingly, protects your choice to be ignorant and uninvolved if that is your wish.

        Still, obfuscating the voting process for those who dearly want to exercise their right to vote is unconsciounable. The Diebold thing is just ridiculous. They cannot be junked soon enough.

        •  Sooo....what are you saying?!? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Caj, phenry

          You think we shouldn't mind if people sell their votes?  Good lord.

          I had been interested in Oregon's system, but now that I read these posts and see how it erodes the secret ballot, I think it should not only not be expanded to other states but should be banned outright nationwide.

          I tend to think the optical scan ballots we use in my area make the most sense.  You get the advantages of electronic voting (speed, accuracy) but with a verifiable, recountable paper trail.  You can release the preliminary numbers right away, then go back and randomly sample a certain percentage of machines' ballots to make sure they match up with the reported tallies.  If they don't, it's time to recount everything by hand and find out what happened--a temporary mess but one that would still ultimately produce the right winner.

          -Alan

          -9.00, -3.69 Bush, 12/12/05: "I think we are welcomed [in Iraq]. But it was not a peaceful welcome."

          by SlackerInc on Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 01:35:43 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Good point! (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SlackerInc, phenry

            We definitely want to stop fraud and increase accessibility---but it is foolish to do this by throwing away one of the basic tenets of ballot security.
               
            Remember, the whole reason we had touch-screens in the first place was to "increase accessibility" and reduce the undervote.  And look what happened:  in the process of increasing ease of use, we obliterated some basic security properties of the electoral system.
             
            This is precisely what is being proposed all over again.  We have a problem with the current voting system:  voting machine fraud, insecure counting, and general logistical problems.  You have a solution to those problems, except it jettisons one of the most fundamental security properties of a secret ballot.

            I think the best solution is to get the security community---the same people who cracked the AccuVote, the same people who design secure election protocols, folks like David Chaum---get them to solve this problem for you.

          •  Well, isn't it (0+ / 0-)

            their vote to sell?

    •  And if they do it on a broad enough scale... (0+ / 0-)

      ...to matter, they can go to jail.

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