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View Diary: Today is the end of the electronic voting machine (372 comments)

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  •  The "facts" (0+ / 0-)

    reside in the absence of credible examples of this actually happening.

    Listen - I'm willing to be convinced, but I haven't seen any reports of this in Oregon.  No cases being brought forward.  It doesn't appear to be a problem.

    Is it is potential problem?  Certainly.  

    Is it an actual problem?

    Judging from the evidence I've seen, no.

    Have you seen anything indicating that this is a pervasive problem in Oregon?

    •  You're still missing my point (0+ / 0-)

      If a wife goes ahead and votes the same way as her husband because she doesn't want to risk starting a big brouhaha, why would she "come forward"?  Understand, I'm not saying he takes her by the neck and threatens her life unless she votes the way he tells her.  He has no idea he has "intimidated" her into voting a certain way; he simply assumes they are on the same page politically, the way he has always assumed.  Only now that she doesn't have the automatic privacy of the voting booth, and he "helpfully" oversees the voting process (though in his mind he's doing this simply because he thinks she might goof it up, the way she does when she tries to operate his many A/V remote controls), she actually does vote Republican to avoid a fight.

      So what's she going to do, go hold a press conference to announce that her husband didn't actually threaten her or do anything illegal, but she voted differently than she really wanted to out of self-consciousness?  The same woman who didn't want to start a fight within the family is going to go blab about it to the whole world?  I mean, what planet are you living on?

      -Alan

      -9.00, -3.69 Bush, 12/12/05: "I think we are welcomed [in Iraq]. But it was not a peaceful welcome."

      by SlackerInc on Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 03:53:32 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  This fearful wife that you're so concerned about (0+ / 0-)

        Is she a really good liar?

        Is she capable of withholding information from her spouse even under extreme intimidation and pressure?

        She would have to be for your concern to be valid.

        And - in Oregon if you wish you can go to a county elections office and fill out the ballot there on election day.

        •  No she wouldn't (0+ / 0-)

          What you're still missing is that the husband I'm talking about isn't inherently suspicious of his wife.  He assumes she votes the same way as he does because (a) she's his wife, and he's egocentric and sexist, as right wing patriarchs tend to be; and (b) she never argues with him about politics.  (One might think the fact that she also doesn't get all riled up about right wing issues like he does might be a clue, but this is a common difference between the sexes and doesn't tend to arouse suspicion.)  So she doesn't get any "extreme intimidation and pressure" from him.

          That would all change, though, if everyone else the guy knows were voting at their kitchen tables, under the watchful eye of the patriarch, overseeing the process to make sure there are no errors or spoiled ballots to dilute the family's political power.  (Again, remember that he thinks of his patriarchal role not as we do--that of a tyrannical jailer--but as God's chosen family leader, a benevolent protector of his family's interests.)  Under these circumstances, if his wife wanted to go off and fill out the ballot in an unusually secret way, that's what would set his radar off, and then the questions and pressure would begin.

          -Alan

          -9.00, -3.69 Bush, 12/12/05: "I think we are welcomed [in Iraq]. But it was not a peaceful welcome."

          by SlackerInc on Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 04:09:22 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Why? (0+ / 0-)

          Is she a really good liar?

          Is she capable of withholding information from her spouse even under extreme intimidation and pressure?

          She would have to be for your concern to be valid.

           
          What extreme intimidation?  We are describing a situation in which the pressure is not extreme.  
             
          Example:  I grew up in a conservative family.  If we voted as a group, I'd feel pressured into voting along.  I wouldn't face violent reprisal (my parents were not abusive,) and yet there would still be pressure not to "come out" as pro-choice, for example.
           
          There would be no extreme intimidation or pressure.  When I did vote (by secret ballot) nobody asked me how I voted, nobody pressured me, I didn't have to lie.  See?

    •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

      ...the absence of credible examples of this actually happening

      ...is not evidence of absence.  You cannot "judge by the evidence you've seen" because you haven't seen evidence either way.

      Let me ask:  has anyone done any study to test for this specific phenomenon?

      We do know that people in OR overwhelmingly prefer mail-in ballots.  We know that this is true across all major demographics:  men, women, the young, the old.  We do know that logistically it's wonderful and everyone finds it incredibly convenient.  This is good.

      But has anyone polled the populace to ask:  "were you planning on voting for someone else and felt intimidated because people would know how you voted?"  What percentage?

      If not, then what's the evidence?

      •  I'm unaware of any polls that asked that question (0+ / 0-)

        You're getting into philosophical territory here - asking me to prove something isn't happening.  That's not possible.

        Have surveys been conducted asking that question?  I'm unaware of any.  Perhaps you should suggest one.  I suspect the Republican Party of Oregon would support you on it.  

        And - one can infer from the widespread support of VBM that a lot of people aren't being intimidated into voting ways they don't want to; or else they'd prefer another method of voting.

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