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View Diary: Why we are obligated to impeach (129 comments)

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  •  I know... (0+ / 0-)

    ...and I agree. I, too, am offended, and deeply.

    Just different ways of expressing it, is all.

    •  I totally understand (1+ / 0-)
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      •  idealism vs. pragmatism (1+ / 0-)
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        this is a simple argument.  nearly all of us who do not prioritize impeachment believe that impeachment would be warranted and just.  but we're unwilling to sacrifice the major legislative goals that we have in order to serve that ideal, and we believe that that will be the cost.  idealism vs. pragmatism- everyone approaches that one differently.

        •  in at least one sense, no, it's not... (3+ / 0-)
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          churchylafemme, nehark, keikekaze

          ...idealism v. pragmatism.

          In many very real senses of the phrase, "doing the right thing" is not at all idealism. Chalking it off as such serves only to frame a particular and allegedly "more pragmatic" position as more palatable than it really is.

          •  i don't know what that means. (1+ / 0-)
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            idealism is defined as the pursuit of perfect values, regardless of real-world consequences.  pragmatism is the pursuit of maximizing achievable goals.

            •  it means that you're framing your own... (2+ / 0-)
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              nehark, keikekaze

              ...position as pragmatism, when it could equally be framed as idealistic. As in - it's idealistic to think that by avoiding impeachment, you'll be maximizing your achievable goals.

              And as in - the most pragmatic approach to maximizing our biggest-picture goals leads through an impeachment process.

              You're just making the avoidance more palatable by cloaking it as pragmatism.

              •  well, (1+ / 0-)
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                if you believe that impeachment is a productive way to move a democratic agenda forward, then i guess that's where our disagreement lays.  in my opinion, impeachment will take all of the energy/attention/approval away from achieving goals such as stabilizing the middle east, developing alternative energy, fixing health care, etc...  and will get us bogged down in years of partisan political dogfights.  if you disagree, then i'll let you go fight for your causes and i'll fight for mine.

                •  you seem to believe that it's either-or... (2+ / 0-)
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                  theyrereal, keikekaze

                  ...either impeachment or the other items on our agenda. I don't agree. Not at all.

                  •  do you know how much (1+ / 0-)
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                    discord impeachment would bring to the democratic caucus?  skipping over the house for the moment (too many names), where do you think the following senators would stand on the issue: tester, baucus, conrad, nelson (both), cantwell, pryor, mccaskill, lieberman, casey, etc... ?

                    •  you seem to have a low threshold... (0+ / 0-)

                      ...for your aspirations.

                      Frankly, I don't know where any particular senator or rep stands on the issue of impeachment. I do know that they're supposed to represent the people's intent, not their own. So, I don't really care where they stand. I know where I stand on it, and there's signs that a majority of the US stands in support of impeachment. So...

                      You seem to be missing something important in this issue. Doing the right thing isn't always easy. Sometimes, it's easier to find ways to avoid it and call that pragmatism. Still, sometimes, and I think this is one of those times, doing the right thing is part of achieving the biggest-picture goals.

        •  despicable (1+ / 0-)
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          Sorry but that's a despicable attitude.

          Like I wrote in my poll --  when do you sell your soul?  Apparently a lot of people here sell their soul when they win the House and the Senate.

          To hell with you and anyone else who sells their soul.

          That is not idealism.  That is humanity.  Without that, you have nothing.  You might as well kill yourself.   This is no exaggeration.  This is bottom line stuff.  

        •  Pragmatically (0+ / 0-)

          all the agenda really  is is  a bullshit minimum wage increase that no american could actually live on.

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