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View Diary: Ford's Loss - Why the Rec'd Diary is wrong (and dishonest) (349 comments)

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  •  Well (6+ / 0-)

    Ford ran because I don't think he got enough votes out in Shelby and Davison counties. When the votes were coming in I still had hope for Ford because he was running significantly better than Bob Clement Eastern TN. That Corker got only 53% in his home county gave me hope that Ford still had a shot and that Western TN would have enough votes.

    Ford ran the best campaign that a Democrat could. The "activist base" was never going to be satisfied with him, no matter what he did. Even if Ford were white he would have had the same resistance from the "activist base". For some reason the "activist base" never understood--or wanted to understand--that TN was a conservative state, not a place where a Democrat better suited for California or New York could run an effective campaign and win.

    http://www.keen.com/jiacinto For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

    by jiacinto on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 09:15:03 AM PST

    •  I thought the Nashville and Memphis wave would (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tabbycat in tenn, GoldnI, R o o k

      carry him too, and was hopeful at 7:00-8:00 that night.  But if you look at the rural counties in West Tennesse, that was the problem with my thinking.  They kept the wave from materializing.

      So I see only tatters of clearness through a pervading obscurity - Annie Dillard -6.88, -5.33

      by illinifan17 on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 09:20:02 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  That just isn't true (16+ / 0-)

      that the activist base wouldn't have been satisfied regardless of what Ford did.  

      Whether it's Lieberman or Ford, I'm tired of dems bashing dems--they need to work together.  Dems get enough bashing from the repubs.

      At least Salazar here in Colorado, who has supported Bush as much as any repub, refrains from the bashing.

      Bush's presidency is now inextricably yoked to the policies of aggression and subjugation. Mike Whitney

      by dfarrah on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 09:31:46 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ford got trashed quite a bit here on dkos, though (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GoldnI, Terra Mystica

        www.lovecraftbiofuels.com drive your car for free!

        by ucla grad102 on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 11:03:37 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think most of that started after he (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          autoegocrat, nasarius

          and his family began attacking Cohen.

          •  or maybe after Kos dissed him (0+ / 0-)

            www.lovecraftbiofuels.com drive your car for free!

            by ucla grad102 on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 11:11:13 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  No, it was before that. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              raatz, autoegocrat
            •  I started trashing Ford... (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              BPK, nasarius, lovin lansing MI, Ishmael

              when he used Republican talking points about the (now essentially forgotten) N.J. Sup. Ct. decision about gay marriage.  The decision emphatically stated that the New Jersey Constitution did not provide any right for gay couples to be married.  It went on to say that the state constitution and laws did require that gay couples be allowed to have the same rights given to them as are given to straight couples when those couples get married.  In plain language, that while there was no right to gay marriage, there was a right to equal rights.

              Ford got out there and made a comment that: a) entirely ignored the court's decision and said that it was about "gay marriage" (which was a Republican talking point they used to try to fire up the base); b) was disrespectful towards another state's sovereignty; and c) shat on the concept of judicial independence and supremacy in the interpretation of the constitution and laws of a state.  His statements were used by the GOP to attack Bob Menendez and Menendez poll numbers fell in the aftermath of that.  Thankfully Menendez recovered and won.  But Ford's willingness to use GOP talking points and disregard other Dem candidates just to score a minor point for himself was what made me lose all respect for him.  That and his brash manner and condescending attitude were just too much for me.

              "Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm." James Madison, Federalist No. 10.

              by Mike McL on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 12:37:56 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  No (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            GoldnI

            Ford has been bashed here for years. People have attacked Ford for a very long time. In the time that I've been here--I joined Kos in Feburary of 2004--I've seen Ford bashed here frequently.

            http://www.keen.com/jiacinto For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

            by jiacinto on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 11:34:56 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Ford got trashed heavily and often here. (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AlanD, Viceroy, Geekesque, GoldnI, ucla grad102

        It was the source of several troll wars.  There were numerous comments containing threats to actively persuade people to sit this one out, rather than vote for Ford.

        I have to say that the "base" was against Ford and probably did actively dissuade some people from voting for him.

        We got lucky to get Senate control.  Not supporting Ford's election was direct support for Corker.  Think about this, as next time around more and more conservative R senate seats are coming up and if the majority is to be added to, this exact same scenario will arise and multiply.

        The base needs to decide what is more important, gun control or war in Iran (i.e. narrow appeal or broad appeal).

        It's full of stars...

        by Terra Mystica on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 11:21:01 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Good point (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          GoldnI, NDakotaDem, Terra Mystica

          But some parts of the "activist base" don't realize that. Some of them would rather lose than win if it means that an "imperfect Democrat" like Ford were to win.

          They had the same antagonism and hostility toward Bob Casey. The only reason they were unsuccesful in PA in derailing Casey was that he was very popular, had a strong base, represented the mainstream values of PA, and had a very unpopular opponent in Santorum.

          You make a good point. Unfortunately, though, any Democrat in a red state who runs will receive the same antagonism from "the activist base". For some reason they don't understand the political realities of some states.  

          http://www.keen.com/jiacinto For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

          by jiacinto on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 11:33:51 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  As far as Casey ,,, (4+ / 0-)

            I live in PA ... Casey didn't go around bashing other Dems .. or do other dumb things Ford did ... I don't even think Casey bothered responding to Kerry's gaffe ... Casey is another economic populist kinda guy .. the only reason that I know of that the "activists" had a problem with Casey was because of his pro-life stance .. but even that is not a hard and fast stance .. since he said he's not gonna work to overturn Roe .. I can only see it from an outsiders view .. but why would TN vote for a Dem acting like a Repub, when they can vote for the real thing?

            •  Exactly! Absolutely no comparison btw HF, Casey (0+ / 0-)

              etc., and Lieberman - total apples and oranges.

            •  Casey and Ford (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              lovin lansing MI

              Casey actually came out in defense of Kerry, didn't he?
              Casey didn't bash the base, or go out of his way to piss off liberals. Also, Casey sold himself as an economic progressive first, and a social conservative second.
              I like Ford and I wish he could have won. That said, I think family history played a role. He was seen as a Washington insider and a child of privilege who inherited his House seat (not to mention that his family has a reputation for being corrupt).

        •  Sorry, meant to say NO war in Iran above. nt (0+ / 0-)

          It's full of stars...

          by Terra Mystica on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 12:06:52 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Plus , we dont need to pass social legislation (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Terra Mystica

          right now. we can bring on pro-guns, even anti-choice canidates in a FEW elections.

          I know. It is just plain wrong to oppose a woman's right to choice, or sound environmental policy, or a host of other priorities.

          but republicans are ALL AGAINST CHOICE. NOt to mention, against almost everything else we stand for. TO kick a dead horse, let me say that I supported FOrd, but did not support his anti-choice views.

          www.lovecraftbiofuels.com drive your car for free!

          by ucla grad102 on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 12:24:55 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Are you sure? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Terra Mystica

        For the "activist base" even had problems with Casey in PA.

        http://www.keen.com/jiacinto For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

        by jiacinto on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 11:35:37 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not really (8+ / 0-)

          Perhaps a bit around the time of the primaries, but by the end I don't recall Casey doing a lot to distance himself from Democrats.  Whereas that's what Ford was doing in the end.

          Look at the way kos works here.  There is tremendous support for a wide variety of candidates.  From Bill Nelson, to Ben Nelson and such.  But then you get a few who really end up in trouble.

          Why?

          It's not because of ideas or beliefs.

          It's because of their tone.  Lieberman, Ford and so forth have this problem where they feel they must publicly bash on Democrats.  Well, it's no surprise then to see Democrats not really supporting them.

          This is something it took me a while to see.  The proper response is to be dismissive, not distancing.  You used to see this with the Republicans when they dismissed Pat Robertson, etc.

          •  cheers to The Other Steve ,,, (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            The Other Steve

            You hit the nail on the head

          •  My quibble with Ford is that he dissed (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            The Other Steve

            Dems too quickly as a tactic.  

            It was like he had as standing order #3, if some DEM says something remotely bad, or Lieberman says something stereotypically good about the war, react quickly to condemn or embrace.

            By being too quick to react, he looked to much like a panderer instead of a genuine believer.  

            If Casey was in a 1%+/- race, his tactics and tone would probably have been different.  But, chicken or egg?  I don't know.

            It's full of stars...

            by Terra Mystica on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 12:49:46 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Aye (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Terra Mystica

              The problem with the Ford/Lieberman tactic is that it gives credibility to the opponents arguments.  Say Corker says 'the Democrats are too radical' and ford says 'I agree, but you have to understand that I am not'.  I'm paraphrasing, but that's how it comes off as.

              Well, guess what the voters see on election day?

              The way to handle it is to deflect it.  You don't have to say anything about any other democrat.  When they bring it up, you say "Corker wants to talk about John Doe because he's afraid to talk about me".  That's it, you turn it into a weakness on their part.

      •  Hold on one sec (5+ / 0-)

        Whether it's Lieberman or Ford, I'm tired of dems bashing dems

        There is a HUGE difference b/w Lieberman and Ford - in fact, its apples and oranges.  One, while I may not agree with him on every issue [while understanding he's running in TN, for crying out loud!], is a true Dem who just took a huge hit for the team, and I've never uttered a critical word about him.  

        The other's a back-stabber who bashes us at every oppo [sticking the knife in Pres Clinton, at his lowest moment, while nary a peep about Duu-bya] and recites Rethug TP's every chance he gets. Oh, and he's from CONNECTICUT!!!

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