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View Diary: This is gonna get ugly (51 comments)

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  •  Well, I don't know about useless (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stephdray, CalNM, doinaheckuvanutjob

    Listening to someone who had just recently left Iraq was eye-opening for me, and helped me understand another point of view.  

    I'm sure that, just as with any issue, there are those who think differently.  Before listening to our surprise witness, I was not sure whether we should leave immediately or stay for some length of time. I could see positives and negatives of both sides, and didn't know which was best for Iraq.  Now, I think we need to work to get others to help us fix what we broke since we can't seem to do it ourselves.  

    -6.63, -6.87 Just to the left of the Dalai Lama

    by ronik on Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 08:13:19 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  The Iraqis that I know (0+ / 0-)

      tell me that our presence prevent Iraqi nationalists from gaining the upper hand in the struggle.  There is a strong strain of Iraqi nationalism that has the potential to bridge the gap between Shia and Sunni, at least among some of the less fanatical around a nationalist vision of Iraq.  But these people are fractured internally because they resent our presence.  Nationalism is incompatible with an occupation.  It is possible that some sort of international stabilization force might be useful, but US forces are now counter-productive.  They antagonize the nationalistic impulse, which is the only thing that can bridge the sectarian divide.  We are really exacerbating the problem.  We can't fix it.  We make it worse just by being there.

      •  Yes, that's what I thought. (0+ / 0-)

        The woman from Iraq (damn it, I can't remember her name - Habib, I think) said that people have withdrawn to their tribes for security, which is having the effect of pitting one tribe against another.  According to her, for Iraqis the tribe comes first, before nationalism or religion.

        Her fear is that, if we just leave now, it will leave a huge power vacuum.  The fighting to fill that vacuum and seize power will be worse than the fighting that's going on now.

        God, it just feels so bad to know that my own country has caused all of this horror for them.  Really, what I want to have happen is that the manchild and his minions all must live in Iraq until the whole thing is settled.  And not in the green zone, either.


        -6.63, -6.87 Just to the left of the Dalai Lama

        by ronik on Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 09:27:03 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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