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View Diary: TOP 20 All-Time Stupid Republican Quotes (311 comments)

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  •  How did that comma sneak in after revisited? (10+ / 0-)

    must represent a war yet to be fought.

    'Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it'. - GBS

    by stevej on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 08:07:44 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  You're ALL WRONG about Lincoln (28+ / 0-)

      everybody who is poking fun about including Lincoln in that quote is a fool

      Abe Lincoln WAS the first to use "Electronic Snopping" without a warrant

      check the historical records

      right after the Civil War began, Abe Lincoln ordered a review all of the TELEGRAMS that had been sent in the past year to check for Successionist messages

      So Abe Lincoln was the first to order warrantless evesdropping on electronic communications

      just though I'd let you all know

      reading a Civil War Almanac isn't a favorite past time for everybody, but the information you can find just might surprise you

      •  Nothing like original sources to connect you (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SarahLee, Topaz7, Naniboujou

        to the past. Even the best books, lectures and documentaries are no substitute.

        For good reason, the GOP often is called "the stupid party." -- Bob Novak

        by kovie on Sat Dec 23, 2006 at 01:22:37 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Lincoln and Wilson and Electronic Surveillance (7+ / 0-)

        No, in fact, you're all wrong.

        First, and foremost, reading telegrams that were sent over a year is not evesdropping, because they were not live conversations.

        Also, I cannot find a single thing about Lincoln "reviewing" a previous year's telegrams after the Civil War began.

        If he did, that's fine, but you're still wrong because of the Second point.

        It is IMPOSSIBLE to have performed Electronic "snopping" or even snooping, before about the 1950's. Electronic is not interchangable with Electric. Just because something uses power doesn't mean it is electronic.

        Electronic refers to something very specific, it is the use of electrons to carry energy, used to turn switches on and off, specifically through things like semiconductors.

        Now, this may seem like simple semantics, but it's really not. If you use a string and a can, you can't expect much privacy, because that string is carrying your voice, straight up. Same with a telegraph. It's carrying your clicks. Anyone and everyone can just lay a wire on the Western Union wire and pick up your clicks. Same with early telephones, which is why they have the whole party line joke.

        Those means of communications did not come with a guarantee, nor even a thought, of privacy.

        Electronics is different. Electronics allows you to have a one-on-one conversation with only the person you intend to speak with. It allows you to expect that the person at the other end of the line is LIKELY to be the only one receiving your message, so you can expect privacy.

        As such, any governmental decrease in that privacy for their gain is tanatamount to a search, because that wire essentially becomes their property for the point in time at which they wish to use it (paying the fee to become owners for that time in their bill each month.)

        So, as you can see, Lincoln COULDN'T have engaged in electronic surveillance and neither could've Washington or Wilson. Roosevelt MIGHT have been able to, but I seriously doubt it.

        •  picky picky (0+ / 0-)

          for the record, Lincoln conducted the review in spite of a Supreme Court ruling that said he couldn't do it

          most of what you said about privacy of telegrams is probably true, but the review of the telegrams happened, and it continued thru the Civil War, and telegrams ARE electronic communications

          the real point of the legal action was related to a blanket search, without probable cause, not about an expectation of privacy

          we gotta remember that this all occured in a Pre-Miranda world, and the Civil Rights Protections we have now are very different than the Civil Rights Protections during the Civil War

          I might be comparing apples and oranges, but they're both considered "fruits", so the comparison is valid on a historic scale

          •  sigh. (0+ / 0-)

            OK, first: " telegrams ARE electronic communications" NO. THEY ARE NOT.

            Electronics = the science of manipulating ELECTRONS. You have to have a circuit board to do that, or at least a semiconductor. You know what didn't have those? TELEGRAPHS! They were:

            ELECTRIC. They sent a single current of electricity through a wire. When the electricity was on, the telegraph clicked, when it wasn't, it turned off. IT WAS NOT ELECTRONIC.

            The difference is critical, because again, there is NO expectation of privacy with a telegram. It can be intercepted or read by ANYONE who can put a wire on a telegraph wire.

            By the way, Lincoln HAD probable cause, if you REALLY think about it. This was a war that was being ACTIVELY fought in our nation, by Americans. It was a declared war and there were ACTIVE AMERICAN CITIZENS working for the Southerners.

            In the current situation, we have not declared war on any sovereign nation, ironically, the one in which we are fighting the hardest is one that we are supporting the government of.

            By the way, your stuff about "Civil Right protections during the Civil War" is crap. The current searches violate the First Amendment. That took effect in 1789. That was several years before the Civil War, if I remember my 'cipherin right.

            Searching telegrams may have been struck down by the Supreme Court but it probably would've been struck down now, for the same reason that searching trash is legal now. There cannot be any expectation of privacy on what amounts to a party line, with no encryption.

            Why is there no encryption?

            For the same reason that your whole argument about electronic surveillance by Lincoln is hogwash.


            QED. Bitch.

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