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  •  Be Real (9+ / 0-)

    I am sick to death of people buying into the Thug spin.  They were under the (false) impression that they were voting to give him a little more weight when the shrub threatened to go to war.        

    Remember this was early enough in this death spiral that the typical use of flat out and consistant lying wasn't widely recognized yet.

    But Holy State (we have lived to learn) Endeth in Holy War. - Kipling

    by nargel on Sat Dec 30, 2006 at 12:03:51 AM PST

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    •  That's BS (10+ / 0-)

      You don't give a reckless teenager a bottle of whiskey and the keys to the family car.

      Too many D's were spineless--afraid of being called names--same reason they voted for U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. act(Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act) without even reading it.

      How come so many of us knew the whole act was BS, yet so many accept it when our elected representatives said "how could I have possibly known?"

      I don't accept revisionist history from the R's and I certainly won't accept it from those I expect more from.

      "The Universe is change; our life is what our thoughts make it." Marcus Aurelius

      by Mosquito Pilot on Sat Dec 30, 2006 at 06:09:43 AM PST

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      •  We must hold our own accountable (6+ / 0-)

        and make sure it never happens again.

        The conduct of the elected Democrats was reprehensible. Rethugs won't listen to us. Democrats should.

      •  Responsible parenting (0+ / 0-)

        You don't give a reckless teenager a bottle of whiskey and the keys to the family car.

        Unless you are Barbara Bush of course.

        Kneejerk reactions do not come from knees.

        by londonbear on Sat Dec 30, 2006 at 11:09:33 AM PST

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      •  that's facile. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wiscmass

        Actions after he proved his word on international events was no good should be accountable, yes.  Actions before may have been wrong in retrospect but, other than needing atonement after the fact, should not be as harshly judged.  Remember the "no politics beyond the border" mantra?  Yes, the idiots should have considered Iran-Contra and all the other Rethug bush wars (Granada, etc.) but expecting deliberate lie-in-your-face-because-I-can't-wait-to-weasel-it-some-other-way behaviour was not a logical first assumtion.

        Saying that those congresscriters should know better now and should have stood op and loudly complained about being lied to then, yes.  Saying that they were all witting accomplices, no.

        I say it again, we all know a lot more now about this reckless 12-year old's actions than anybody did then.  Claiming the vote meant knowing, active support is the revisionist history IMO.

        But Holy State (we have lived to learn) Endeth in Holy War. - Kipling

        by nargel on Sat Dec 30, 2006 at 11:40:39 AM PST

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        •  2 things (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          wiscmass, Free Spirit

          I live in Texas.  I've seen this idiot for quite some time.

          I was so against the war before it started that I ran for Congress.  He had no weapons of mass destruction--Scott Ritter and the other professionals said so.  Bush said, "trust me, I have secret evidence that he does".  I'm also something of a stickler for following the rule of law.  Article 1, section 8, clause 11 of the US Constitution says the people delegate to Congress the responsibility to declare war.  There is no clause 11b that says "unless it would be more politically expedient to pass the buck to a jack ass eager for war".  That makes it illegal.  To attack without being attacked makes it immoral.  The way the war has been prosecuted makes us less safe and less free.  All of this was clear to many of us before the war.  Why we don't elect folks with the same common sense many of us have is beyond me.

          "The Universe is change; our life is what our thoughts make it." Marcus Aurelius

          by Mosquito Pilot on Sat Dec 30, 2006 at 01:07:11 PM PST

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        •  NO! (0+ / 0-)

          Anyone who thinks the job of an elected representative is to look into the hearts of other men and figure out who they can trust and who they can't should never be allowed to serve as dog catcher.

          You are an idiot if you buy a pig in poke, whether the seller is Mother Teresa or Adolph Hitler.  You are an idiot if you would use your power as a US Representative or Senator to play a childish bluffing game.  And if you when other people will pay for it with their lives if your bluff is called, then you are a flat-out SOB.

          If these guys don't have the brains to know that it doesn't matter who was asking, what their history was, what their party affiliation was.  This was a reprehensible vote, whether out of malice or stupidity.  And I could care less which one it was.

          •  "I could care less which one it was." (0+ / 0-)

            I could.  It makes a difference.  Agreed, not much of one.

            1. In any interaction with another the 2 bedrock questions one starts with are "do I trust what he/she says" and "how much".
            1. I spent some time this morning having an intense "discussion" with some people about whether the Dems actively enabled the shrub with this vote and were more responsible than he was for the war or were neoconed into it.  I believe upon rereading your initial post that I may have seen an emphasis that was not there.  I still stand by what I said concerning the vote,however.

            But Holy State (we have lived to learn) Endeth in Holy War. - Kipling

            by nargel on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 01:09:51 AM PST

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    •  Yeah, sure (0+ / 0-)

      You have no idea what they thought they were voting for.  They hid behind closed doors, remember? No matter...either they were complete idiots or craven cowards. Great choice to have when pondering the motives behind the voting behavior of one's representatives in Congress.

      Either way, I want Americans to remember.

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