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View Diary: Today's NYT: Downplaying A Rape At Harvard (342 comments)

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  •  The Guilty Plea (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    vcmvo2, gustynpip, lil love, LynneK, Xenophiles

    is a decent indication that this was not some innocent misunderstanding.

    I have a more interesting question.

    Why are you so eager to assume, despite the guilty plea, that the accuser was lying?

    Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.

    by boadicea on Sun Jan 14, 2007 at 02:24:49 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Did you even read my comment? (0+ / 0-)

      Why are you so eager to assume, despite the guilty plea, that the accuser was lying?

      I'm not contending that accuser is lying.  Not at all.  Did you even read my comment?

      I'm indicating that nobody, not even this diarist, knows the truth and nobody thus should speak as an absolutist on this matter.  I believe the diary does such that and is thus guilty of the same one-sided story telling as the NYT article itself.

      Either side could be lying.  Possibly both sides are lying.  Or neither side is lying but just interpreted events differently.  Who knows.  Not you, not I, not the writer of the NYT article, not the prosecutor, not the author of this diary.

      We don't know the truth.

      I feel like a kid at a candy store with only $1... do I want an Obama? Edwards? Gore?!?! Too many choices!

      by Tetris on Sun Jan 14, 2007 at 03:28:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I did, indeed. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Adam B, vcmvo2, Ja of Anoroc, Xenophiles

        Why does this diary take the Prosectution's story as completely true and the defendant's story as utterly false?  

        You misstate the premise of this diary to start with.

        Cant everyone admit that no one except the two persons involved truly know what happened that evening?

        Then you forward your own false premise.  While this diary doesn't in itself comprise conclusive proof that the accuser's story was true, it does not follow that it is impossible to prove that this rape was committed and by whom.

        I'm not calling the "victim" a liar, but I'm simply stating that I know that I don't know whether she is telling the truth.  The same is true for the "criminal."

        Except you effectively just did call the victim a liar, and then you emphasized it by putting the quotes around the word.

        In case anyone missed your not so subtle implication.

        Also don't consider the plea bargin an admission of factual guilt (although it denotes legal guilt).  It's possible the defendent was factually innocent but granted the circumstances and legal advice he decided to plea bargin to prevent the risk of an even worse sentence.

        You've already stated you don't believe factual guilt can be established.  (False Premise)

        It is also possible that angels will fly out of my ears, and my bank account will suddenly increase by a factor of seven.

        The possibility that a guilty plea entered into by a defendant who left a fricking note acknowledging culpability after being seen harassing the victim (no quotes needed) who followed up by reporting a rape and submitting to a rape kit is actually an indication of innocence is a lot less likely that either of those occurrences.

        Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.

        by boadicea on Sun Jan 14, 2007 at 04:37:09 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  think about it (4+ / 0-)

        a young woman accuses a friend of rape. He writes her a note saying he is sorry he FORCED her to do things she did not want to do.  He pleads guilty in court.  He "didn't mean to hurt her" (meaning he hurt her).
        How can you possibly think he did not rape her?  He apologised for forcing her to have sex.  That's rape.
        I am sure that he didn't want to think so because after all he was a nice harvard boy from a good family.  He was not a stranger and he didnt' beat her up or try to kill her.  It is amazing to me that in 2007 there are still young men who feel they are entitled to sex because they have an erection and that's all there is to it.  You can't force someone to have sex and pretend it isn't rape.
        He apologised for forcing her... that means he raped her.

        •  wrong (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          there is absolutely no available evidence that he apologized for using force.  he apologized.  the prosecutor characterized it as an apology for using force.  i suspect that if it was clearly an apology for using force, the prosecutor would have quoted directly and not summarized.

          while certainly possible, i find it highly unlikely that anyone would write a note that apologized for using force to have sex.  particularly in a date rape case since most date rapists don't view what they did as rape.

          as an unfortunate caveat that seems necessary in this diary, none of what i have said is meant to imply innocence or dismiss the rape allegation.

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