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View Diary: The Libertarian spoilers (259 comments)

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  •  And what does that have to do with my post? (0+ / 0-)

    Again, answer the question.

    You say that Dems are better than Republicans on civil liberties issues.  Fine.

    What about smoking bans, seat belt laws, speed limites, gun restrictions, politically correct speech codes on college campuses, ending affirmative action, school choice, the Military Draft?  

    Those civil liberties issues don't count?  Is that how you see it?  

    Eric Dondero www.mainstreamlibertarian.com

    by ericdondero on Sat Feb 03, 2007 at 07:39:18 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  I did answer. (0+ / 0-)

      Twice I said those do count.  We just have MUCH more important civil liberties to address first.  As I said in my previous 2 posts, the GOP through congress and Chimpy have removed, violated, or weakened civil liberties that are of such great importance that they are part of the founding doctrine of our nation.  Without habeus we have no freedoms at all.  The ability to claim any of the other liberties requires a fair hearing.  So, again, I say that the liberties that you are focused on are of smaller magnitude (some of them aren't civil liberties at all).  

      Our founders gave us, in my view, the most amazing document in governmental history in The Constitution and they built in a method to ammend it.  They didn't even wait for us to use that method.  They went straight on to giving us the first 10 ammendments because they are of such importance that without them the entire goal of the document is destroyed.  Those are the civil liberties that must be focused on before we even begin to debate wether or not you have the inalienable right to make sure that everyone on the road with you dies when your tire blows out because you were going 110mph.

      •  ok, so me previous post (0+ / 0-)

        didn't make on to the page for some reason (the one before the "I did answer" one), but I agree with you about some of the liberties that you mentioned.  I just think that they are mostly petty inconvieniences compared to the destruction of the core liberties that we've seen by repugnicans in recent years.

        Also, I question your "these affect me daily" standard.  If you were a judge would you recommend capitol punishment for jay walkers since it happens daily while letting Jeffery Dahmer walk with a fine since his crime is rare?  Let's have some reality when we're talking about priorities.  Magnitude does count and in my view it counts more than frequency on this issue.  I know that you blow off the habeus thing because we were sold this bill of goods as intended for terrorists and their sympathizers, but I have seen powers used in ways other than intended once or twice (or maybe all of the time which even by your frequency standard makes this something that you should take very seriously).  

        I mean really... the inconvenience of a seatbelt next to the elimination, violation, or weakening of multiple parts of The Bill of Rights?!

        The terrorist justification sucks.  If 9/11 changes everything then the terrorists have already won.

    •  Why do you bother coming to dailykos ericdondero? (0+ / 0-)

      You're obviously not welcome here.  I don't get why you keep coming back.  I think you'd feel much more comfortable at redstate.com, where I'm sure many people will agree with your views.

      "Leave the gun ... take the cannoli." -8.38, -7.69

      by Balam on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 02:34:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  when someone disengages from a debate... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Balam

        on a blog, is that the same as acknowledging a loss?  Still no answer to my magnitude question.  I don't mind someone who is not a progressive coming here to engage in debate.  In fact, it helps us to hone our points before presenting them to a larger audience, but don't just step out of the conversation when you realize that you have to concede a point.  Magnitude does count and seat belts are piddly crap next to the destruction of the Bill of Rights... there, I said it for him.  
        .
        ericdondero, If you don't want me to assume that you concede the point by not replying feel free to tell me that magnitude does count and there is a failure in your logic.  Otherwise justify a ticket for Dahmer and the chair for jay walkers.  Failing that, I will continue to assume that I am right on this one and you are wrong.

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