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View Diary: Teacher's Lounge: Juggling Thought (78 comments)

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  •  the What is just (2+ / 0-)
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    rserven, pioneer111

    as important as the How.  It's that philosophy that has emptied education and teacher training of actual content.  Students must learn history, their multiplication tables, and so on.  How can you find, analyze, interpret, and synthesize if you don't also gain mastery of your subject?

    Our great democracies still tend to think that a stupid man is more likely to be honest than a clever man. -- Bertrand Russell

    by Statius on Sat Feb 03, 2007 at 10:40:53 AM PST

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    •  Shouldn't the students have any say... (1+ / 0-)
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      cookiebear

      ...in what they want to learn.  And shouldn't the teacher's have a say in what they feel comfortable teaching and what they teach best?  And aren't teachers equipped to decide what students need to know in order to be able to learn?  Or are we too dumb to do that?

      Truth is that the general public has been in charge of deciding what must be taught, through their collective political voice, and the general public has pretty much screwed up education.  You've made it so that students hate school.

      Teacher's Lounge opens each Saturday, sometime between 10am and 12 noon EST

      by rserven on Sat Feb 03, 2007 at 10:47:37 AM PST

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      •  To answer your questions (2+ / 0-)
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        rserven, pioneer111

        in order.  Yes (to a degree), yes, not always, and that's just ad hominem.  I'm a teacher too, and I'm saying that there is a difficult balance to be struck here.  Teacher education at american universities are not always adequately preparing future teachers.  

        Sorry that you took my comment so personally.  But teacher training does need to be addressed.  Not by the general public, but by educators.  

        Our great democracies still tend to think that a stupid man is more likely to be honest than a clever man. -- Bertrand Russell

        by Statius on Sat Feb 03, 2007 at 12:54:58 PM PST

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        •  I don't accuse you of anything... (2+ / 0-)
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          annetteboardman, Statius

          ...so there is no ad hominem.  A question cannot be an ad hominem.  The ones who are consistently demeaned are the teachers.  

          I didn't take what you wrote personally.  Why would you think that I did?  I advocate for teachers.

          I've taught teachers for most of my career.  I've taught them, not trained them.  They are humans, not animals.  Therein lies much of the problem with teacher education:  too much training and not enough teaching.

          Teacher's Lounge opens each Saturday, sometime between 10am and 12 noon EST

          by rserven on Sat Feb 03, 2007 at 01:01:56 PM PST

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          •  I think we are mostly in agreement (3+ / 0-)
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            annetteboardman, rserven, pioneer111

            perhaps I am overly prickly today.  A question can be ad hominem if it's phrased the right way, but I accept that you were not in any way being ad hominem.

            I like your distinction between teaching and training.  For me training is part of the consumer model of education that is crippling our schools at all levels.  

            I also advocate for teachers, but I fear that teacher's aren't always given the right start due to their instruction in college.  I'm all for keeping tenure, dumping NCLB, MUCH better wages, more humane work schedules (yeah yeah, they get summers off, but the work day is ridiculous), but there needs to be some reform to teacher education programs.  Not attacking you personally since I don't know what kinds of programs you've taught in.  I've seen some great ones, and some terrible ones.  I also very much agree that the greater public's role in all of this needs to be lessened.  Too many special interest lobbying and the whole thing goes to hell.

            Our great democracies still tend to think that a stupid man is more likely to be honest than a clever man. -- Bertrand Russell

            by Statius on Sat Feb 03, 2007 at 01:10:49 PM PST

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