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View Diary: Gnosticism and Jesus' "Destroy this temple" (50 comments)

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  •  Please (3+ / 0-)
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    Wee Mama, MJB, a gnostic

    At least when it comes to Catholics, don't smear the actual practicing Catholics with the same brush that you use against the hiearchy.

    I know plenty of people who have worked for Catholic Charities.  While they themselves are pretty much making poverty-level wages, they have made herculanean efforts to ensure that poor, inner-city children get proper housing, education and healthcare.

    I know of a nun who once scoffed at someone who was 'pro-life' - she called him 'pro-birth'.  I like that.

    •  Throw Off the Chains (1+ / 0-)
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      I get you, but I also disagree.

      the Catholic hierarchy says they know what is best and they demand total obedience. their scandalous, abusive behavior for at least-- oh, the past 100 years leaves them with more or less ZERO credibility at this point.

      the "good Catholics" you describe should divorce themselves from the hierarchy and start over without their dumb, corrupt asses. otherwise, their work is overshadowed and overtaken by the evils being committed by those "above" them.

      "The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me." President Bush - Animal House

      by Superpole on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 05:34:05 PM PST

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      •  You *don't* get it (1+ / 0-)
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        You still feel the urge to put "good Catholics" in quotes, and you still think that anyone who calls themselves Catholic can't really be a good person because they are "overshadowed and overtaken by the evils being committed" by others.

        In other words, you are a devout believer in guilt by association.

        So you say you get it, but you don't.

        So this is how liberty dies -- with thunderous applause.

        by MJB on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 09:23:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Superpole gets it alright. (1+ / 0-)
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          There were good nazis. There are good republicans, just as there are bad Democrats, etc.
          He is pointing out the difference between the two.
          We all have responsibility to understand why we do the things we do, and who we do the things for. A prime example is AIDS education in Africa. A Catholic is prohibited to teach about condoms. We all know that condoms reduce the spread of this desease. The lack of condom education in the third world by Catholic teaching has caused the deaths of millions.
          Now, who do we blame for this? Not Mother Theresa.

          Superpole is saying we educated people have a responsibility to change our leaders and our organization to do better in the world.
          And I agree.

          Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who don't matter don't mind...................Dr. Seuss

          by elbamash on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 08:22:45 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The way I was taught (0+ / 0-)

            I was taught that dissent was fine within the Church.  It was likened to a large family dinner.  You don't have to agree with whatever the old man is going on about, but you still love him.

            •  You were taught well (1+ / 0-)
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              In general, those who talk about the Catholic hierarchy demanding "total obedience," or being "prohibited to teach" -- well, anything (clearly they haven't met any Jesuits), or that they don't care about children after their birth, are usually made up of two groups: the 10% that grew up in a heavily Puritanically influenced America, and whose Catholic priests reflected that pre-Vatican II "fire and brimstone" mentality while they were in the Church and missed every single message of social justice, the fight against poverty, the necessity of separation of church and state, etc. etc. because of that, and the other 90% that speak against the Church having never been in it to hear its message -- the ones that think that Donohue is ordained or something, the ones that think that Catholics believe the Pope is infallible or that Catholics are creationists or that they supported the Holocaust -- it gets tiring, discussing this sort of thing with that demographic.

              There's a reason crosstabs show Catholics as the most Democratic of all the Christian denominations.  I wish more people realized what an insult they were giving to part of our core constituency when they blanket condemn a religion like that.

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