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View Diary: Veblen--a political economist for today (69 comments)

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  •  Marx, Veblen, AFEE, AFIT, JEI (0+ / 0-)

    Well, since this diary on Veblen is coming from a guy who thinks AFEE is composed of balding, aging men I don't suppose its worth my time to correct your utter ignorance about Marx and your deep misunderstandings about Veblen.

    I will only state for the record that as a member of  AFEE I resent your characterization of us. I suppose I should say I also represent your backhanded insults at a few people  who I think are excellent Veblen  scholars and whom I have known for close to 20 years. I won't take it personally since you obviously don't know any of them, despite your claim to know Rick Tillman (who is a member of AFEE and a regular contributor to the Journal of Economic Issues which is published by AFEE).

    Rest assured that the age distribution at both AFEE and AFIT conferences includes both men and women ranging in age from young graduate students all the way on up to our most venerable members.

    But with comments like those you just made about Marx, you strike me as man whose ideas are so confused they are scarcely worth the time bothering with.

    •  Typo (0+ / 0-)

      I meant to say "I resent that" and not "I represent that".

    •  Picture of Rick Tilman (0+ / 0-)

      Taken two years ago in his home in Arizona.  I don't have anything against balding aging men, I am one myself.

      Rick Tilman

      I live less than ten miles from the Veblen house and have given at least 75 tours over the years.  I have met most of the SERIOUS Veblen scholars.  One of the problems for Veblen enthusiasts is that for every genius like Tilman, there are a bunch of utterly confused folks like Citizen Rat who is so certain of his error, he simple MUST insult people.

      Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool

      by techno on Sat Feb 24, 2007 at 11:48:20 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Unnecessary (0+ / 0-)

        Techno,

        You started with the insults. You might care to read my recent diary on Marx. You might take the time to read what people like Bill Dugger and Howard Sherman have had to say about the relationship between Marx and Veblen.

        I raised a few substantive points about where I thought Marx and Veblen were clearly related. You didn't respond to a single point. In addition, you smeared Marx.

        Now who is insulting whom?

        •  Just what we need! (0+ / 0-)

          Someone to drag Veblen down into the sewer with Marx.  And for what???  So some clown with too much time on his hands can draw conclusions that are wholly irrelevant.  Just remember, the number of people who were brutally murdered by folks who claimed Marxist "enlightenment" number over 100,000,000.  The number of people murdered by Veblenians--ZERO.  Excuse me, why would I think that someone who makes a link between the two men is doing ANYTHING except insulting Veblen?

          I know it is bad practice to feed trolls.  So please, just go away.

          Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool

          by techno on Sat Feb 24, 2007 at 12:08:19 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Why Veblenians never killed anyone (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            nauretok

            Veblenians never engaged in mass political murder because first and foremost no Veblenian has ever had real political power. Veblen did not found a social movement. Veblen developed a thorough and systematic critique of capitalism, a theory of history and many other ideas as well. The nature of the concerns he writes about: social evolution, technological change, the power of vested interests are all concerns that he takes from Marx.

            Most Veblenians I know span the range in political values from moderate to far left. At least in economics, most Veblenians are quite comfortable in URPE (Union of Radical Political Economists) which is primarily (but not exclusively) the chief grouping of Marxist economists in the U.S.

            I do not believe that any serious heterodox economist who is interested in evolutionary economics would deny the connection to and importance of Marx.

            "Marxists"-those who believed they were following Marx's instructions for political and social ideology have come to power, often with disastrous results. That does not mean that Marx's analysis of capitalism is entirely invalid as I explained in my diary.

            You keep trumpeting "serious" Veblen scholars but have not provided one shred of proof for your assertiongs beyond the fact that you provide tours of Veblen's house and can post pictures of Rick Tillman.

            I've given you at least one academic reference by serious scholars: a book entitled "Reclaiming Evolution" by Bill Dugger and Howard Sherman. Any rational person would conclude Bill Dugger is a serious scholar and that he is a serious scholar on Veblen-regardless of whether one agreed or disagreed with him. Furthermore, any person worth his salt on Veblen would at least make some effort to engage in the extensive publications about Veblen in the Journal of Economic Issues.

            You have not give me one single citation or for that matter provided anything resembling serious argument why Marx was not an influence on Veblen nor have you really justified your smear of Marx. It remains at least an open point of debate whether or not Marx was responsible for Lenin and Stalin. And many serious scholars who take the time to actually read Marx and read the scholarship on Marx recognize that there are multiple ways to interpret Marx and that his analysis of capitalism can be logically distinguished from his advocacy for socialism, and his advocacy for socialism logically distinguished from Lenin's arguments for Bolshevism, and Lenin's arguments for Bolshevism distinguishable from Stalin (who btw killed several million and not just a hunder thousand).

            Like I said: I originally thought that I would just add a few points to round out your diary. Instead you turned into a 1950's style G-man intent on rooting out communist subversion.

            So do you have anyting to offer beyond redbaiting?

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