Skip to main content

View Diary: Richardson drops out of Fox News debate (344 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Everybody Chill! (15+ / 0-)

    Obama said that he will decide next week.

    I think he may have some other things to do - something about some sort of presidential campaign or something.

    I'm leaning Edwards, but I aint bashing Obama - yet.

    • Blog This: News Corpse
    • The Internet's Chronicle of Media Decay.

    by KingOneEye on Fri Mar 09, 2007 at 02:03:41 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  What is Obama's big sin? (6+ / 0-)

      Quit jumping on him.  He punked Fox once, and now he is ignoring them.  Fine with me. It seems to me that he's treating Fox News as irrelevant but his reluctance to issue a condemnatory press release or publicly trash the debate may have more to do with trying not to publicly embarrass the Nevada Democratic leadership.  They created this mess in the first place and they are probably feeling pretty chagrined right now.  

      I will lose respect for Obama if he agrees to appear. But if he fails to confirm and lets the debate die, without poking a thumb in the eye of the well-meaning but foolish Nevada dem leadership, well that would be smart politics and a reasonably classy, mature response to this whole debacle.  

      •  Supporters of other candidates are (4+ / 0-)

        desparate to find something to trash Obama on, they can't even wait for him to screw up first.

        •  Be specific (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mjd in florida, wscrews, Pet Wrecker

          The ones with fomaing mouths are Edwards supporters.

          John Edwards is a great guy, but the lynch mentality of his online supporters drives me crazy sometimes. It's getting out of control.

          The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of crisis, remain neutral.

          by ten10 on Fri Mar 09, 2007 at 02:26:31 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm already on record (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mjd in florida, jilikins, Pet Wrecker

            I support Edwards.

            But I'll cast a vote for Obama in the general election without hesitation.

            I think beating the hell out of any Democratic candidate at this point in time is doing the work of those who hate America -- the GOP's "base".

            (And if you're wondering, no, this isn't the only reason I've decided to support Edwards early. He's also the only Democratic candidate I'm aware of who isn't, pardon the pun, shooting himself in the foot when it comes to being in favor of the entire constitution, not just "everything but the second amendment.")

            "Doing My Part to Piss Off the Religious Right" - A sign held by a 10-year old boy on 9-24-05

            by Timbuk3 on Fri Mar 09, 2007 at 02:47:01 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  I like Edwards too! (0+ / 0-)

             But, I am seeing a huge support for Obama in my Tampa Bay corridor by kids in their 20's that is becoming phenomenal.  (Many independent voted that probably would have voted for Edwards in 2004 had he been at the top of the ticket.)  Obama is connecting "big time" with our younger voters...   Now I am going back to primping my Tom-Boy body!  My SSG sons best friend, since toddlers, (they joined the "Guard together prior to 9/11) is getting married on the beach tomorrow!  Big day!  The friend, a Warrant Officer, just returned from a year near Baghdad before New Years.  My son spent a year near Kabul, Afghanistan running an ANA Depot until in July.   All the groomsmen are wearing their dress uniforms.  I wish the groom/bride the best as he was having anger issues when he 1st arrived home where he was a very easygoing guy beforehand.  I saw him last night and he seemed much better adjusted since January (he is based in Kentucky) although he was on his way to getting totally trashed for his bachelor party!  love, mjd

        •  Honestly... (0+ / 0-)

          I am not backing any candidate right now, and probably won't be.  The only one I was considering supporting this cycle was Russ Feingold, but since he's out of the race, what would I have to gain by trashing Obama just for the sake of "trashing" him?  To be honest, he didn't impress me ever since I watched his speech at the 2004 DNC convention.  The one thing that was finally beginning to change my mind was when he announced he was allegedly going to freeze out Faux, but if that was true, he should have been the first to opt out of this debate and didn't, so I guess this means I'm back to 'bashing' Obama, at least, that's what others call it.

      •  Obama dropped away from FOX before FOX in game. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mjd in florida, Pet Wrecker
    •  Obama blew it!!! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ThunderHawk13, Rockwood, Pet Wrecker

      He looks like a follower rather than a leader on this one.  Can't the guy make an f-ing decisive decision!!  If this gets cancelled without him having pulled out of it, it will be a big problem for him.

    •  fwiw (0+ / 0-)

      I just wanted to throw in my thought that I don't think he'll even be an ongoing candidate by Feb of 2008. I think his entire candidacyis  all an enormous pre-packaging expense -- funded by progressives I might add -- to groom him and give him name recognition for mainstream America for a go at it in 2012.

      Everything about it has been methodically planned and orchestrated like the introduction of a new brand into an established marketplace. Though the idea of pre-packaging oneself for a followup run in not bad in and of itself, for me the idea of so much progressive energy being thrown in now, during this cycle, to support this not-a-chance candidate, is really a terrible waste of resource.

      It was very clear to those who dropped all illusions, back in 2002, that Kerry was not a go-all-the-way guy, and that he had major liabilities with moderates and Republicans, and  that his overall tone deafness in reading people and the body politic would all serve to waste the totality of effort of Dems and progressives who got behind this man.

      As was the case back then, early polling of course favors those with name recognition. Which is why the conglomerate-media's early annointment, a year ago, of Hillary as the presumed nominee was so laughable and irrelevant.

      I think the same is clear right now, that the popularity polling of today is largely irrelevant to the dynamics that will be present in jan 2008.

      Left to me, I would excise the extra year of presidential campaigning -- which is 100% devoted to mainstream TV recognition and brand building -- and just start with the primaries in january of the Presidential election year.

      It sure would save a ton of money all across the board -- and it would keep candidates and staffers focused on their day jobs -- that of being a paid public servant representing a constituency of voters -- which one would hope would result in better legislation, better solutions for America right now -- vs the promise of some vague "platform" "if I were to be elected president".

      I think the whole thing is a sham -- which financially benefits consultants, and TV networks who get an extra year of payroll and talking head footballs to kick around for audience amusement and ad revenue... and bears little relationship to the deciding factors that eventually determine the outcome of the elections.

      These are, in my view, weighted principally in:

      (1) The 3 televised debates late in the campaign cycle .. because only political partisans invest two years in following an election. face it, only 40% of americans even get up to go to the polls on election day. Which underscores the "Big yawn" of a wasted two years spinning dust that eventually settles and becomes spent dough with little influence.

      Ordinary Americans just have a vague awareness of who's running and who shows up on TV news shows, but most are not investing any time at all during that pre-election year toward assessing candidates. The majority will vote for their party candidate, whoever it is, and the rest are the moderates and swingvoters -- and they don't have time while raising families and working to invest time in this campaign stuff this early. Thus, the final 3 TV debates send a stimulus to that deciding group that "it's time to tune into who's running, and fugure out who's worth voting for".

      (2) Then, it's about 2 months of TV ads -- and whatever gets imprinted in their brains and emotions from those ads.

      (3) Then there's the final GOTV phase, and the majority already knew two years ago they'd vot for the nominee of their party, regardless... And of thge swing voters, maybe some of these people will listen to final pitches, and let some surrogate lay it all out for them, the pros and cons of candidates A, B, and C .... and they think about this stuff in the final week... and then it's off to the polls on election day... and assuming you have time and motivation to get to the polls, you cast your vote.

      From a distance, viewing the USA from a satellite, I think you'd see a mot of ants frantically wasting energy for 2 years, producing almost no advantage whatsoever, and you'd see the majority of people blobs not even paying attention to any of it at all til the final 3 months.

      Come November 2008, Obama and his packagers will have spent X amount of money raised from progressives and dems, and they will satisfactorally see a ROI ... that Obama will now be a package ready to go in 2012... What he surely knows right now is his ultimate plan.

      I really can't see how anyone here could care about what Obama does or doesn't do. He's just an object to pour money into and get sculpted into a player for 2012.

      Ooops! Am I in the wrong thread? Sorry!

      •  Who would Obama oppose in 2012? (0+ / 0-)

        The sitting Democratic president? Why? And in 2016 he would have to defeat the sitting VP for the nomination.

        Kudos for the effort.

        Be the Democrat you want to see. DebateScoop

        by demondeac on Fri Mar 09, 2007 at 02:49:30 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  you're right of course (0+ / 0-)

          I messed up my math re when he'd be poised to run for Pres again. ... So I'll just amend my media packaging comments above to say:  This Presidential run is a brand builder for Obama, and he knows it, his handlers know it, the only people that don't seem to know it are many progressives, who actually believe he has a chance at winning the swing voter pool thus enabling any candidate to win the presidency. But what they CAN do in packaging him right now, is set him up for the VP slot. It seems highly likely he'll get that -- unless whoever wins the Dem nomination has a specific choice in mind.

          And, as you point out, when the Dems win the 08 Presidency, the likely scenario is an 8 year run, and if they perform well and no major scandals torpedo them, then Obama as 8-year VP would be then fully ready to assume the office  of the Presidency.

          So, yes, I messed up my logic presentation in a significant way, but even so, my underlying point still holds, as far as I am concerned:

          (1) He's not going to win the swing voters hearts and minds as a Presidential contender, he knows thatm his handlers know that, and this whole exercise right now is brand building. Again, nothing with that per se.. but it does funnel away money for a candidate who COULD win the swing vote in 08... and it also splits off his focus tremendously, meaning that he's so focused on his marketing package ascendency that he's less attentive to his role as a very junior US Senator -- who really should be busting his ass to do some significant good -- and not wishy-washying his way through the chamber now that he's set up this media spotlight on him.

          Too bad. Russ Feingold is 100x the better President potentially, but he knows what deficits are in his "package", is realistic about them, and rather than drag out and exhaust 2 years of what could be valuable Senate time for the sake at a Presidential run, Russ -- an authentic leader, chose to instead use this newly acquired power of the Democrats in Congress to take on the on massive challenge to bring America back from the disaster of the Bush Years.

          Obama would do well to watch a true leader at work -- and stop preening with his vanity run. He was elected by progressives to GET TO WORK in the Senate. And it's a real shame he's instead diverting his focus to lay out his political career -- vs serving his constituents first.

          Personally, I still have my eye on Wes Clark... and even though Kos has said that if clark can't get off the pot and step up now and get into the race if he has any intention of being a Presidential contender, he ought to just stay out and not sap any energy out of the party by continuing to dangle "the possibility", I think Clark has been playing it the smartest of them all.

          Here we have a big discussion, correctly, over the absurdity of Fox News conducting a Presidential debate... But some kossacks contended, that is, before Ailes stupidly hand-grenaded his own unit, that it would be good to find a way to expose our candidates to the disaffected GOPers who are fed up with Bush -- and who principally watch Fox News.

          Wes Clark was no fool in signing on as a commentator and analyst at Fox News. He's been exposing himself to the Fox audience for several years now, and in my view, he maintains the perfect pitch in tone and substance when he places admin policy into context and perspective. I don't know if he'll run, but recently he said he thinks about it every day, and if so, I wish he would jump in. But he's a warrior. And a strategist. And I think he's waiting for one or more of the early contenders to be shown to be unpopular with Americans at large -- thus upping the ante to find someone more balanced and forthright.

          I may be all wrong! But nonetheless, this is the way I see the playing field. At the end of the day, i think too many people are just plain blinded by the light re the natural charisma of Obama. He'll be GREAT as a career politician, and maybe one day he'll actually do some great things for our country. But it isn't now... he's already way too modulated and strategic in every single thing he does -- focused first on his long term career, and less on the massive problems at hand in America -- And that's too bad. Because for all the reasons people want him to be President, he could be applying all that charisma, and charm, and sheer intellect toward the cause of ending this war, and restoring the liberties taken away by BushCo.  I just would like to say, he's a major letdown for me after he burst upon the scene inspiring us all at the 04 convention.

          Anyway, thanks for calling out my glaring error in Post #1 :)

    •  I wasn't bashing Obama either (0+ / 0-)

      Support our Troops - Stop funding the War!!

      by annefrank on Fri Mar 09, 2007 at 04:20:24 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It doesn't take that much time to make a decision (0+ / 0-)

      as long as you have the confidence in your own candidacy.  As have been stated in plenty of other diaries on this subject, this is hardly the last debate that will be held by the Nevada Democratic Party.  Maybe the delay is in crafting a typical triangulation press release where he goes out of his way to seem to not try to offend the Nevada Democratic bosses, hopefully out of touch with rank-and-file NV Dems, while still hitting Faux hard?

      Either way, it disappoints me that Mr. Bill 'DLC' Richardson who fought a recount of Bush/Kerry in NM tooth and nail, and on top of that, arguably needs the exposure WAAAAAY more than Mr. "Golden Boy" has opted out of the debate before Barack got around to it.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site