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View Diary: 18 Dems Cosponsor AWB II, Forget Why They Were Elected (161 comments)

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  •  The 30-30 doesn't exactly come with a 30 or 20 (0+ / 0-)

    round clip. Claiming that an AR-15 isn't particularly deadly is not a great argument.

    •  Really? (0+ / 0-)

      Get a Colt Lightning. Pump-action, holds 14 rounds, lots of different centerfire calibers. If you hold down the trigger and fast-stroke the pump, you can be through the whole mag in seconds, accurately. Just as fast as a scary semi-auto.

      And THAT was sold in the 1880's.

      Other sorts?

      I have a Swiss K-31 from 1943. Straight-pull bolt. I can operate it as fast as a semi-auto, detachable magazine, and 7.5x55 Swiss is the same, ballistically, as .308 Winchester (7.62x51 NATO). Same exact bullet on the case, same energy, same distance, same power when it hits, and actually better accuracy. The FAL, which uses .308, is on this list, the K-31 is not.

      Appearances.

      Scary things.

      "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross" - Sinclair Lewis

      by Loboguara on Sun Mar 11, 2007 at 09:21:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Modern military weapons... (0+ / 0-)

      ...are nearly recoil-free, and it is considered a benefit that they do not kill, only wound - because it ties up more resources on the other side.  The most lethal weapon I own is a 12 ga pump shotgun, in terms of lethality - yet it is generally considered to be a 'sporting' (i.e., hunting) gun.  

      Yet people who argue that guns should be restricted stay away from shotguns here.  Why?  Because they know that it'll just offend hunters.  And lose votes.  Well, here's a news flash for those folks - the effort to eliminate guns from our culture isn't going to work, and your desire to do so is just going to relegate the Dems to minority-party status forever.

      Read my SF novel for free. (-7.13/-7.33)

      by Shadan7 on Sun Mar 11, 2007 at 09:21:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  If you are having a difficult time killing (0+ / 0-)

        someone with an AR-15, you are a terrible shot.

      •  12 ga is the home protector of choice (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Shadan7

        nothing stops a burgler faster than the CA-CHING of a 12 ga being chambered .....

        It doesn't really matter if I'm wrong I'm right Where I belong I'm right Where I belong.

        by Da Rock on Sun Mar 11, 2007 at 09:25:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't know (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Shadan7

          Pitbulls work pretty damn good for home defense too.

          "War is the ultimate reality-based horror show." - Colonel David Hackworth

          by Hannibal on Sun Mar 11, 2007 at 09:31:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Well, just as advice... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Shadan7, 0wn, Da Rock

          While that may be a deterrent, if someone's hopped up on crystal meth, they're unlikely to even notice.

          If that makes them flee, good, but don't ever count on that. That's a good way to get killed when they go beserk and rush you instead. Any "defensive shotgun" instructor will tell you that. Also that if you have a home defense shotgun, muzzle down, even if they grab it, you'd get them in the legs or waist, and always be aware of what's beyond your target, that even buckshot goes merrily through quite a bit of sheetrock.

          You see, (and this is to others posting here), responsible gun owners take the responsibility of this seriously, and study all this. Criminals don't...and they don't obey any of these laws either.

          So what good does it to do harass the responsible, law-abiding people who might one day save your neck from a criminal? It's happened, many times.

          Passing laws like this declaws the good, responsible, sane and law-abiding people who would protect the innocent when the police can't come, as Katrina showed.

          This does nothing for criminals, who ignore all the laws anyway. Nothing. Nothing at all. They own illegally, buy illegally, and carry illegally. They don't care.

          "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross" - Sinclair Lewis

          by Loboguara on Sun Mar 11, 2007 at 09:31:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  True enough -- if you don't know how to handle (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Shadan7, Loboguara

            a gun please stay away - my backup is a .45 Smith loaded with Golden Sabers ...

            True story aside ... dunno if its too old to Google.

            Austin Texas 70's ... single mom woke up and heard noises coming from her 14 year old daughter's room .... she went to investigate ... guy was in the act of raping her daughter and started to run down the stairs to get away.

            He picked the wrong house that night ... mom was Texas State .45 Champion that year ... she hit him square in the back of the head with a wad cutter ... he never raped anyone again and was implicated in several rapes prior to this ... police gave her an award for stopping his "reign of terror".... moving target, dark, and running downstairs ... nice shot.

            how do I know? I was a volunteer cop at the time and was called out. It was a tad hard to ID him though.

            It doesn't really matter if I'm wrong I'm right Where I belong I'm right Where I belong.

            by Da Rock on Sun Mar 11, 2007 at 10:00:39 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  and for every one of these ... (0+ / 0-)

              ...types of stories I can tell you dozens of stories where a legal owner of a gun kills his wife and or family in a case of domestic violence and just as many cases where thier house gets robed and the gun is used in a crime later.

              We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

              by delver rootnose on Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 12:08:06 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'll take my chances with MY family (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Loboguara

                I don't know about yours so maybe you are right and your family should not have a gun after all you know them best - when I do not have mine on me they are in a very secure gun safe - too much $$ to chance being robbed and I agree lets not let them fall into the wrong hands.

                If you want to kill someone there are many alternatives to guns -- poison, knives, strangle, etc ... people can be very creative.

                It doesn't really matter if I'm wrong I'm right Where I belong I'm right Where I belong.

                by Da Rock on Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 06:13:08 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  The reason is.. (0+ / 0-)

            ...is that many of these law abiding gun owners use them on thier family in domestic violence cases and even more have those guns stolen from them and used on the street.  Better to have less guns in circulation.

            BTW.  would you support a law that would make you criminaly or civily liable for any crime that is commited with a gun registered to you or are you one of those types that think gun regritry laws are bad as well.

            We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

            by delver rootnose on Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 12:06:03 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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