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View Diary: Dusting off "Inherent Contempt" (282 comments)

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  •  Unfortunately We Have Not (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jbeach, KenBee

    reached the point of impeachment yet. I am all for it but all the options must be ran through first.

    This may still be able to go to the courts.

    In the Burford case the issues was her conflict of interest as head of the EPA and refusing to disclose documents related to a conflict of interest involving the Superfund program. So that was a political question as the courts decided - it involved conflict of interest (non-criminal) and possible ethics (again non-criminal).

    However in the case of Gonzales this borders on whether a "criminal act" of lying to congress has taken place by one or more people. There is also the issue of whether a criminal act took place in the replacement of the US Attorneys where their replacement was knowingly to keep them from moving forward with cases that they had initiated. That is obstruction of justice - a criminal act.

    If the WH is impeding a criminal investigations by congress then the court may very well decide that the documents must be turned over.

    Criminal Acts are the key issue here.

    "You Have The Power!" - Howard Dean

    by talex on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 01:10:41 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Time? (0+ / 0-)

      How long will it take to "run through" all the options? We are operating under a time limit, here - Bush just wants to run the clock out. If he pulls that off, he effectively wins because, even though you can impeach someone after they leave office, the public will be sick of it and want to put it behind them by then.

      •  I Don't Know (0+ / 0-)

        how much time it will take to run through the options. I'm not sure anyone really knows what all the options are at this point. As Kagro X pointed out some of the options are just being rediscovered.

        The reality is that congress will not impeach until all options have been exhausted no matter how much you and I want to see Bush impeached yesterday.

        As for impeaching someone after they leave office - is that possible? I'd like to see a link to a reliable source if that is really true. And what would be the point anyway. An impeachment is for removal from office, it is not a criminal trial per se.

        "You Have The Power!" - Howard Dean

        by talex on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 01:46:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Impeachment when out of office. (2+ / 0-)
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          talex, BlackGriffen

          Secretary of War William Belknap was impeached, then resigned, but was tried in the Senate regardless. The Senate took a vote on whether or not the resignation mooted the impeachment, and held that it did not.

          Belknap was acquitted, however, and many Senators reportedly voted to acquit because -- despite the vote -- they felt the issue was moot.

          But one of the possible consequences of impeachment is that a guilty party can be barred from all future federal government service.

          •  Interesting (1+ / 0-)
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            david78209

            How are the "possible consequences" of being barred from all future federal government service determined? By the Senate?

            On another topic what do you think about what I posted regarding possibility of the courts ruling that all documents must be turned over if the congress is investigating something that could lead to criminal violations?

            "You Have The Power!" - Howard Dean

            by talex on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 02:10:34 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The Constitution (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              talex, david78209

              In Article I section 3

              Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

              The Senate decides

              •  Thanks - - - n/t (0+ / 0-)

                "You Have The Power!" - Howard Dean

                by talex on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 07:05:56 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  I read here on daily Kos (0+ / 0-)

                that after the Senate convicts someone in an impeachment (which requires a two thirds majority) it can then vote whether to impose that punishment of disqualification, which only requires a simple majority.  Apparently it's not automatic, but it's pretty likely in a Senate that just voted to convict by two thirds.

                We're all pretty crazy some way or other; some of us just hide it better. "Normal" is just a setting on the dryer.

                by david78209 on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 07:38:54 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  You can't impeach if they're out (0+ / 0-)

        of office. But criminal charges would still be possible.

        And frankly, if we can marginalize them enough between now and the election, I'd rather have the US Marshals waiting for Bush when he gets off the podium after the next Pres is sworn in.

        Because as soon as he's out, he's fair game for every criminal charge that can be thrown at him. Him, Cheney, Gonzo, and everybody else.

        I'd much rather see them rotting in jail than just thrown out of office. Even if it has to wait a bit.

        •  Can Impeach - It Bars Them from Fed Office (3+ / 0-)
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          rktect, david78209, creeper

          Impeachment and conviction isn't just about removal from office - it's also about barring the person from ever holding federal office again. If we'd have impeached a bunch of these yahoos from the Nixon administration we wouldn't be in this mess how.

          The least we can do is make sure we don't face the same mess in the future from a bunch of recidivist imperialist psychopaths.

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