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View Diary: On the impossibility of Palestinian recognition of the State of Israel (307 comments)

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  •  Recommended. (6+ / 0-)

    Miss Shergald? Here: http://evenhandeddems.blogspot.com/2007/03/all-hail-israel-aipac-and-grovelling.html

    by mattes on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 02:30:11 PM PDT

    •  Hi (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      npbeachfun, james risser

      what happened to Shergald anyway?

      I would rather vote for what I want and lose, than vote for what I don't want and win. Eugene Debs

      by tgs1952 on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 05:04:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Ha! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eric S, zemblan, jhritz

      We were chatting about you earlier, when I thought Diaries was you; yes, a brilliant moment for me.

      But anyway, why are you posting a link in your sig line to a banned user?

      In New York, we eat wingnuts for breakfast. And we blog, too.

      by MBNYC on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 06:44:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  well, then... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        anonymousredvest18, npbeachfun

        ...you will really be pissed-off when you get down to the person below that actually linked to an article by that former user...

        But if the Nazi analogy is incorrect, by how much is it incorrect? Before any suicide bomber entered Israel during the second Intifada, Israel soldiers had killed many innocent Palestinians. Included among them were 27 innocent children, aged 4 months to seventeen, most of whom were shot in the head by live ammunition. What kind of people engage in or condone such behavior? As Khalid Amayreh addressed it, "This is a question for Jews to answer." Actually, this is a question for Israelis to answer. Jews in organizations like Not In Our Name and Jewish Voice for Peace and dozens of other activist organizations in Israel, Palestine, the US, and around the world already seem to know the answer.

        but, seriously, where does it say that once someone is banned that all likenesses and links to things that they write in other venues is likewise banned?

        what sort of a black-list do you envision for shergald and curmudgiana and others?  do we have to stop saying their names?  

        can you supply a list of all banned users from dailykos over the past six years so that i can make sure to not link to anything they say???  just email it to me.  kthanx.

        •  Nice... (5+ / 0-)

          ...the guy is a known anti-Semite who was kicked of DKos for a reason, came back with multiple sock puppets - and is still rumored to be present today - and you're posting his content and muttering darkly about blacklists.

          DKosopedia:

          The thing about it is this: banning is permanent. You don't get to come back under a different name. Many people try, and are surprised when their accounts are again yanked pretty much as soon as someone bothers to look for them. If you've been banned, go to a different site and contribute there instead.

          So sure, technically, you're right. Thing is, my guess would be that the guy wasn't kicked off because of BO, but because of his writings, which you are now posting here.

          You do the math.

          In New York, we eat wingnuts for breakfast. And we blog, too.

          by MBNYC on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 07:09:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  And that's the "closet" that I suggested (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            shpilk, MBNYC, Mia Dolan, zemblan, jhritz

            shergald left after being banned here.

            Al Gore should be president.

            by another American on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 07:13:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  yes, banning is permanent... (3+ / 0-)

            ...bad bad bad.

            i would have never seen this article written by this person had not someone below mentioned it in a post.  so, i hope that you chastise that person equally as you did to the person above with the signature line you did not appreciate.

            by the way, i have no idea who does or does not get banned from day-to-day, and i would hate to break the rules and land on a black-listed person, as i can only assume, you believe this person ought to be on.

            and, a 'known anti-semite' is virtually meaningless on this site since the term gets thrown around rather loosely. especially in my in-box at gmail.com.  so, i doubt if this person was banned for that reason.  i would bet he or she was banned by having their comments hidden by troll-ratings a sufficient number of times, no???

            •  Probably (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              shpilk, zemblan, jhritz

              ...and I'm no expert on troll hygiene, but that seems to be the way it works.

              Re: known anti-Semites, maybe I'm wired differently than you, but I don't see that as being easily waved off. There's a number of them in these threads, especially the kind that spend much of their days posting how much they hate the Jews oops Israel.

              Which of course is the Jewish state and of all other countries receives the most vilification here. One wonders why, and why so consistently from the same group of people.

              But I'm sure that's all innocent.

              In New York, we eat wingnuts for breakfast. And we blog, too.

              by MBNYC on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 07:36:27 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  well, let me tell ya'... (3+ / 0-)

                ....i used to, before coming to this site, agree with you

                maybe I'm wired differently than you, but I don't see that as being easily waved off.

                but, after having the moniker used against me so often by the same usual suspects, the term has grown virtually meaningless. seeing it in my inbox every couple of days scrawled by some dope who can't put together a complete sentence sort of takes the edge off the impact of the phrase. hell, someone somewhere wrote an entire blog article about me being an anti-semite. i have no idea who it is, and only heard about it because someone found it and sent it to me to ask me if it was true.

                i wrote a diary on the subject quite a while ago on the, i guess you would call it, 'neutering' of the term by its over-use for affect by those who want to erase palestinians from the map, and/or believe the state of israel can do nothing wrong.

                and, if you are speaking about me, i do not write about palestine and israel every day or most days.

                •  Well... (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  shpilk, Eric S, zemblan, jhritz

                  ...I will grant you that there's an overuse of some terms in these conversations,as far as I can tell after maybe two weeks of taking part in them. For example, the terms 'apartheid' and 'fascist' and 'Nazi state' with regard to Israel. I can't speak with any authority to the use of the term anti-Semite, but on the few occasions when I've seen it used, it seemed justified. That doesn't exclude the possibility that some people would use it more casually, which is wrong as well.

                  Precision. It's not a bad thing.

                  In New York, we eat wingnuts for breakfast. And we blog, too.

                  by MBNYC on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 08:05:50 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  actually... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    npbeachfun

                    ...the two are not comparable.

                    to say

                    For example, the terms 'apartheid' and 'fascist' and 'Nazi state' with regard to Israel.

                    is not a personal attack calling someone an 'anti-semite' so that if one had the mind to search for someone's name, they would see several people calling other people this personal smear.

                    i hope we haven't gotten to the point where we have so personalized israel to the extent that to say something about a state is the same as saying something about a diarist.

                    •  They're absolutely comparable. (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      shpilk, Eric S, zemblan

                      We're talking about uses of language here, and I'd suggest to you that what you do not like is in part conditioned and created by what I do not like. These things don't stand in isolation, and context does matter.

                      In New York, we eat wingnuts for breakfast. And we blog, too.

                      by MBNYC on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 05:18:37 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  what? (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        npbeachfun, callmecassandra

                        calling a person at dailykos an 'anti-semite' is comparable with saying the state of 'israel is an apartheid state'????

                        that is truly dangerous thinking...

                        can i assume from that calling a person a 'baby-killer' would be comparable to calling the state of america a war-state?

                        wow!

                        just so i understand you, a personal attack against someone at dailykos is comparable to a political attack on a state?

                        •  Wrong question. (3+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          another American, Eric S, zemblan

                          It's not necessary to directly conflate the personal accusation of anti-Semitism with the accusations leveled here at a state entity to understand that the latter produce a tone that facilitates the former. Throwing around verbal chaff like 'Nazi' and 'Apartheid' is not an invitaion to reasonable debate.

                          And for the record, I think it's possible to make a criticism of - not, as you put it, "attack" - a given state actor without resorting to inflammatory language. The problem is that if someone, as you put it, "attacks" the Jewish state, and especially or solely the Jewish state, whose defining criterion is its Jewishness, people are going to sooner or later think it's motivated at least in part by anti-Semitism. That impression is if anything reinforced by the whole Apartheid/Nazi drool that some people here are fond of,  because it's so wildly off the mark. See this for a shredding of the Israel = Nazi Germany blather.

                          In New York, we eat wingnuts for breakfast. And we blog, too.

                          by MBNYC on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 03:03:34 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

            •  you should read my mail (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              anonymousredvest18, james risser

              I hate my country, my self, my family... nice things like we know who you are... how much do you love your family... you anti-semite blep...

              .... fun shit about brown shirts and worce after I was so made at Jay for up rating Adam for say those things-

              I guess they thought they found a button (Crematorium)

              Judenrat, Judenrat, Judenrat, Judenrat

              who knows what kind of person sends such things? Fear Hate.... I dont know?

              "A standing army is one of the greatest mischief that can possibly happen" James Madison (-6.88, -6.26)

              by npbeachfun on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 07:49:16 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  So I am your next target? (4+ / 0-)

        Miss Shergald? Here: http://evenhandeddems.blogspot.com/2007/03/all-hail-israel-aipac-and-grovelling.html

        by mattes on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 07:48:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  you are talk to air mattes (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          anonymousredvest18, james risser

          no one knows, the person will just disappear...

          "A standing army is one of the greatest mischief that can possibly happen" James Madison (-6.88, -6.26)

          by npbeachfun on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 07:52:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I would change the sig line. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          zemblan, jhritz

          Shergald is banned, and his writings probably are the cause of that. So yeah, I'd suggest it really is a bad idea to advertise them. Not to mention the tangent that the guy is a screaming, obvious anti-Semite or anything like that. Gotta wonder about advertising that, but hey.

          In New York, we eat wingnuts for breakfast. And we blog, too.

          by MBNYC on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 08:11:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  you gave your add~ (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            james risser

            I have my Sign~ face it Mattes or I could have your favorite author in our sign line and you wouldnt like us any way?

            dairy pimping come over remember Hunter S Thompson, my friend the
            True Gonzo!

            "A standing army is one of the greatest mischief that can possibly happen" James Madison (-6.88, -6.26)

            by npbeachfun on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 08:55:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You know (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              shpilk, zemblan

              ..when and if I start peddling hate speech in my sig line, give me a holler. Until then, how about calling a spade a spade and stepping away from advertising an anti-Semite?

              This is really basic stuff. Shergald = banned user + anti-Semite = bad.

              In New York, we eat wingnuts for breakfast. And we blog, too.

              by MBNYC on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 06:00:28 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Hummmm (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                jdcondit

                Who put you in charge of Offensive Speech?  
                Looks to me that anAm is keeping an eye on Shergald, he seemed to know about all of Shergald stories... giving links to some of them. I too lazy to do a search but at lest twice people on your side gave me links to Shergald?

                Funny how much all of you care about Shergald?
                I never went over to LGF to see what Red Tulips was up to~ I was just glad she was gone.

                As far as I can tell you weren't even on the I/P debate when Shergald was Band, unless you are an old user with a New ID~ which is with in the rules.

                I am an Israeli, Shergald didnt offend me, you have said you are not Jewish?

                Please let me know when you are appointed: "The minister of thought and speech" until then I will keep believing Both of my countries support Free Speech!

                "A standing army is one of the greatest mischief that can possibly happen" James Madison (-6.88, -6.26)

                by npbeachfun on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 08:01:00 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  I thought it was a good diary. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            weasel, npbeachfun, james risser

            And, no I don't think he is anti-semite.

            Miss Shergald? Here: http://evenhandeddems.blogspot.com/2007/03/all-hail-israel-aipac-and-grovelling.html

            by mattes on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 09:12:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Dude... (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              shpilk, Eric S, zemblan

              Via here, some choice material:

              These groups, in conjunction with Jewish dominated media giants like the New York Times, the Washington Post, Newsweek Magazine, the Los Angeles Times, Time- Warner-AOL and their CNN news network, basically control the dissemination of news in the United States

              What part of the old anti-Semitic trope "the Joos control the media" strikes you as not being anti-Semitic? And what exactly does it say about you that you consider this, by inference, a reasonable statement?

              And now, watch Mattes make a sustained argument about how it's true and The Joos do control the media.

              In New York, we eat wingnuts for breakfast. And we blog, too.

              by MBNYC on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 05:55:10 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yes, some people think that. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                npbeachfun, james risser, jdcondit

                Is that reason to be banned? Maybe you can change their mind.

                Miss Shergald? Here: http://evenhandeddems.blogspot.com/2007/03/all-hail-israel-aipac-and-grovelling.html

                by mattes on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 01:47:13 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Sorry, no. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Eric S, zemblan

                  Sure, some people think that. Some people think we need to bring segregated lunch counters back. Some people believe that stoning is an appropriate punishment for adultery. Some people think the Holocaust never happened.

                  Thing is, I don't spend time arguing with those people. Once someone's reached that level, they're not susceptible to argument, otherwise they wouldn't hold these views.

                  And yes, anti-Semitism is bannable here, as I understand it. With cause.

                  In New York, we eat wingnuts for breakfast. And we blog, too.

                  by MBNYC on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 02:09:34 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

      •  ....who was chatting about me? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        npbeachfun, james risser

        Miss Shergald? Here: http://evenhandeddems.blogspot.com/2007/03/all-hail-israel-aipac-and-grovelling.html

        by mattes on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 01:45:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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