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View Diary: On the impossibility of Palestinian recognition of the State of Israel (307 comments)

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  •  Well (4+ / 0-)

    pretexts that enable Hamas to sit on its hands while the Palestinians suffer

    Hamas isn't the party blocking negotiations.  The unity government, as I recall, agreed that they were ready to negotiate and that all negotiations would be done through Abbas.  Since Israel has indicated that it wants to negotiate only through Abbas, it is hard to understand how Hamas is the stumbling block here.

    •  Even if this about resumption of aid (6+ / 0-)

      Same thing, even if we are talking about a resumption of direct aid from the US and the EU. As I said down below, international law is irrelevant, because the PA isn't entitled to a penny under international law. Thems that has the money has the right to impose conditions on giving aid -- happens every day in both public and private life.  If the EU says Hamas has to do x, y, and z to get the aid flowing again, then Hamas has to decide whether it wants the money that badly.

      In loving memory: Sophie, June 1, 1993-January 17, 2005. My huckleberry friend.

      by Paul in Berkeley on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 04:39:42 PM PDT

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      •  Well (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        You are shifting topics.  But if we're talking about aid now, not negotiations, then fine.

        But you have three separate points:

        1. The US/EU have the POWER to control the money, and so can impose any damn condition they want.  
        1. The US/EU is in the right in making this demand.
        1. Hamas is in the wrong.


        1. Perfectly true, so true it doesn't even need to be stated, we all realized this.
        1. I disagree.  I agree that international law is not the proper framework to analyze this, though it does highlight how really meaningless a demand this is.  But these preconditions on Palestine but not Israel have numerous negative effects: they devastate life within Palestine and they undermine any claim for the US/EU to be a balanced or fair player in the region.  That makes it harder for the US/EU to work for peace.
        1. I'm not sure.  I think the US/EU are wrong to impose these conditions, but that doesn't make Hamas inherently right in refusing them.  Clearly Hamas doesn't want to give up any of its very few chits for negotiations with Israel.  It also doesn't want to be seen as being controlled by foreign powers, since it came to power on resistance and anti-corruption.  Further, Hamas has made some words not dissimilar to what you have suggested, but it has never been enough.  Though could reasonably suggest to Hamas that no words will ever be enough, and they will be lead down an endless path.  Also, the words alone are not the only condition.  The US/EU are demanding a lot more, including an end to all resistance even as the Israeli settlements and Wall are expanding.

        In short, if all that was standing between Palestine and real aid was a few meaningless words, I would join you completely.  But I think the situation is much more complex.  The US/EU are asking a lot more and offering a lot less and doing a lot of harm in the meantime.  I think that is one of the reasons the EU appears to be slowly dropping the preconditions and finally moving forward.

        P.S. Sorry this is so badly written, I'm listening to a neocon Assistant US Attorney lecturing on FISA (our own John Yoo wannabe).

        •  Well, what is it? (7+ / 0-)

          I thought we were talking about conditions for negotiation, but you and the diarist said that isn't the issue. I know that recognition of Israel is a condition of direct aid resumption, so is that the context? Or is it something completely different?

          Your second point, that the US and the EU are right to impose these conditions, I don't necessarily agree either. They have the right, but that doesn't mean they are right.

          On the third point, I think Hamas is succumbing to its own pride, at the expense of its own people.  Hamas has danced close to the words I posted above, but it has backtracked each and every time. It just isn't psychologically ready to get in the game. Or maybe it isn't willing to change its ideology.  Time will tell.  

          And yes, there are other conditions, I know. But this diary is about recognition, not the other conditions.    

          In loving memory: Sophie, June 1, 1993-January 17, 2005. My huckleberry friend.

          by Paul in Berkeley on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 05:09:57 PM PDT

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