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  •  Yeah, until you read the post debate spin (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lgmcp

    This is a transcript of Fox News Channe's post-New Hampshire debate analysis, which aired Jan. 22, 2004

    Gentlemen, it seems that in the aftermath of what seems to have been a backlash in Iowa against negative campaigning, that these candidates took it very seriously. There was an extreme reluctance to say a contrary word about each other, which perhaps made for a less than scintillating debate.

    But, Fred, what stood out for you?

    FRED BARNES, EDITOR, "THE WEEKLY STANDARD": I think that's right. The candidates didn't engage, despite efforts by Brit and Peter Jennings and others to get them to engage each other. They didn't.

    I like them this way. I mean, there's always a winner in a debate. And the winner is the frontrunner in the race, as long as he or she doesn't do something to knock himself — and in this case, it's John Kerry — off the perch. And I don't think Kerry did.

    I think he did fine. He's still the frontrunner.

    I thought Lieberman was very strong in defending the pro-war position. Very, very strong. We saw him right at the end. Edwards was very forceful, John Edwards, but he didn't know what the Defense of Marriage Act, how it works. He got that wrong.

    Yeah, boy we did just great. Kerry didn't shoot himself in the foot so he's still the front runner, Dean was bitchslapped into silence by his Iowa scream, Edwards and Sharpton had their heads up their asses on the details and Clark was in bed with that extremist Michael Moore, but that Lieberman, he was "very very strong"!

    Geez, I bet Talex was surprised the Fox didn't come out and endorse of the Dems right then and there

    /snark

    "Man, I'm not playing for $100 grand...YOU ARE! You tell ME where the fish is!!"

    by Zero Carb Rob on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 10:36:09 AM PDT

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    •  That's Post -Debate (0+ / 0-)

      not the actual Debate. Apples and oranges.

      Go read the tough questions and the fantastic answers of the 'actual' debate and then come back and see me.

      "You Have The Power!" - Howard Dean

      by talex on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 10:39:50 AM PDT

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      •  So, do you seriously believe (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lgmcp, collegekid318

        that Fox viewers don't believe in the Fox spin? Fox is a GOPer PR firm. So essentially what your saying is that PR, propaganda and spin is ineffective? You have to be kidding.

        Case in point, how many people believed Saddam was behind 9/11 in the run up to the Iraq war? A pretty good majority. How many people believe it now? Probably less than 40%. Why? Because Fox and the GOP said it so, so it made it so.

        Then again, I'm arguing with a DINO troll, so what should I expect.

        "Man, I'm not playing for $100 grand...YOU ARE! You tell ME where the fish is!!"

        by Zero Carb Rob on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 10:48:19 AM PDT

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        •  You Are Dragging out (0+ / 0-)

          irrelevant stuff. Fox is going to spin regardless of what network the debate is on. So is CNN. So is MSNBC. That's a given so spin does not matter. Besides most people do not even watch the entire debate little on the post-spin. You offer false arguments.

          Go read the actual debate transcripts - questions and answers.

          Then come back and see me.

          There is a reason that ALL THE CANDIDATES had already scheduled to appear on Fox and it wasn't because the 2004 Fox debates hurt us. Can you get that through your head?

          "You Have The Power!" - Howard Dean

          by talex on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 11:00:36 AM PDT

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          •  Post Debate Spin more important (0+ / 0-)

            Fox is going to spin regardless of what network the debate is on. So is CNN. So is MSNBC. That's a given so spin does not matter.

            OMG. Spin and PR is ineffective and worthless? Yeah, that's why PR and advertising is a billions of dollar of year industry, because shucks, TV and cable is just a passive conduit of ideas. They broadcast 1 hour of debates and then spend the next 23/7 telling it's viewers that what they saw was really Dems in disarray and failure mode. Why give Fox the ammo to make you look like an ass?

            ::insert rolling eyes here:::

            You're the one who doesn't get it. No matter how many babies John Kerry's saves from the burning building Fox news will always spin it how Kerry started the burning building to begin with.

            But then again I'm dealing with a Dem who's self proclaimed forte is PR and is working for the White House.

            "Man, I'm not playing for $100 grand...YOU ARE! You tell ME where the fish is!!"

            by Zero Carb Rob on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 11:52:55 AM PDT

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            •  shrug (0+ / 0-)

              So you refuse to read the questions and answers of the actual 2004 debates.

              I don't blame you. You know what you will find there and it will not fit what YOU WANT TO BELIEVE.

              I understand. It is more important to cling to your beliefs than see the truth for yourself.

              I won't be bothering to respond to your posts on  this issue any longer. You believe what you believe and refuse to read the actual facts/transcripts for yourself. So be it.

              You refuse to acknowledge that the candidates had already scheduled in their calendars to appear at the Fox Debates with no reservations at all because they dind't see a problem. You simply cannot see that they didn't see a problem with Fox. So be it.

              "You Have The Power!" - Howard Dean

              by talex on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 12:06:25 PM PDT

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              •  Shrug (0+ / 0-)

                I guess that's what happens when you're a part of the reality based community. No Dem fell to the floor crying in a fetal position in 2004 so that means that the Dems won! All is well in the world of Talex!

                "Man, I'm not playing for $100 grand...YOU ARE! You tell ME where the fish is!!"

                by Zero Carb Rob on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 12:15:20 PM PDT

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              •  Talking past each other to different questions (0+ / 0-)

                Talex is arguing that the content of the debate was positive for Democrats, and dismissing or declining to argue the importance of post-debate spin.

                ZeroCarbRob is arguing that spin is huge in general and destructive in this instance, while dismissing or declining to argue any benefits from the debate content.

                And then the issues of why candidates changed their minds this year, and what that means, is a whole other set of questions.

                I personally agree that spin is huge and cannot be dismissed.  As far as whether the candidates came off well, spin aside, well, I have no opinion - no energy to read the transcript right now and wouldn't watched it on Fox in the first place. My guess is, coming off well to Kossacks wouldn't do a damn bit of good among 98% of Fox viewers.  Is the 2% worth it?  Dunno, maybe.  

                "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

                by lgmcp on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 01:53:21 PM PDT

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