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View Diary: Agonistic Politics: Why One State Is Best (137 comments)

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  •  Because.. (0+ / 0-)

    There are some elements, groups, zealots that can't be argued with. There belief in their own rightness would blind them to anything, I believe that an agreement with someone like Fatah is possible, it's merely elements like Hamas that need to disappear to make it happen.

    A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for a coffin. -H.L. Mencken

    by CynicalPartisan on Wed Apr 25, 2007 at 02:39:51 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  The fact that there are some (5+ / 0-)

      groups who can't be argued with is part of the key insights of agonistic theory.

      The belief that Hamas must be eliminated in order to achieve peace is not dissimilar from the theoretical position of Carl Schmitt, who also believed in essential conflicts between enemies that at times could only be resolved through a fight to the death.

      Schmitt, of course, joined the Nazi party...

      •  So? (0+ / 0-)

        The fact that one man joined the Nazi party doesn't change the basic truth, some people can't be dealt with through diplomacy.

        A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for a coffin. -H.L. Mencken

        by CynicalPartisan on Wed Apr 25, 2007 at 02:49:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  SOME people can't... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          litho

          ...I have a very hard time believing that the political wing of Hamas is among them, and if they are, Israel is indeed in a great deal of trouble.

          The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

          by Jay Elias on Wed Apr 25, 2007 at 03:02:11 PM PDT

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          •  Nice Quote (0+ / 0-)

            I believe considering the peace true just ended, things are about to get very interesting.

            A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for a coffin. -H.L. Mencken

            by CynicalPartisan on Wed Apr 25, 2007 at 03:06:35 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Eh (4+ / 0-)

              I seriously doubt that the end of the truce will be particularly lasting.

              The Hamas government was not on board with the actions of the al-Quds brigades, and considering the lack of effectiveness of their actions, I'm quite sure that the prospect of a possible prisoner swap for Gilad Shalit will be more than enough to induce them to reestablish the hudna.

              The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

              by Jay Elias on Wed Apr 25, 2007 at 03:09:05 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  isn't that what michael ledeen... (4+ / 0-)

        ...and other neoconservatives believe as well?

        ...and they joined the republican party.

        •  We can make this a game, if you like (0+ / 0-)

          The Muslim and Arab groups who supported the Palestinian cause all endorsed George W. Bush in 2000. I/P transcends party labels in this country.

            •  Here you go (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              another American, Eric S

              AMPCC endorses Bush for presidency

              Oct 23 [2000]: four Muslim organizations joined forces to found the American Muslim Political Coordination Council (AMPCC), to rally an Islamic vote behind one of the presidential candidates. AMPCC endorsed George W. Bush, who had met with American Muslim representatives early in the campaign and had also spoken out against so-called "secret evidence" provisions of recent immigration laws that allow for the detention of non-citizens without full disclosure of the evidence against them. AMPCC consists of  American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Council on American-Islamic Relations,  and Muslim Public Affairs Council.

              Bush support among Arab-Americans tumbles

              Detroit's influential Arab American Political Action Committee shocked Michigan political analysts by endorsing Democrat Dennis Kucinich for the nomination [in 2004]. Osama Siblani, the organization's leader, told The Associated Press that the group endorsed President Bush in 2000 but felt "stung" by the administration. Now it has decided to support candidates for their "principles" rather than their "electability."

              There is a lot of useful text under What Caused the Shift at this link. Npbeachfun, Feanor, it should provide you with the background you're looking for on the 2000 election.
              U.S. Muslim coalition endorses Bush - George W. Bush - Brief Article

              Swayed in part by George W. Bush's stance against racial profiling of Arab-Americans in the United States, the political arm of a Washington-based American Muslim group endorsed the Texas governor's White Housecampaign.

              At a news conference October 23 in Washington, the Political Action Committee of the American Muslim Political Coordination Council cited remarks Bush made during the second presidential debate as central to its support for his presidential bid.

              ...

              Those words showed that Bush "has elevated the level of his concern about civil rights of Arab-Americans in the United States," said Yahya Basha, president of the American Muslim Council, one of four member organizations of the Political Coordination Council. The other organizations that make up the council are the American Muslim Alliance, the Council on American Islamic Relations and the Muslim Public Affairs Council.

              American Muslim Task Force’s role in 2004 election

              In 2000, African American Muslims, who are generally Democrat, were particularly upset that American Muslim organizations, instituted by the immigrant majority, had endorsed the Republican candidate without regard to their opinion and interests.... Muslim organizations had developed links with the Republicans during the 2000 campaign. The community must renew and strengthen those links. It should avoid ridiculing or condemning those Muslims who may choose to work with the Bush campaign or the Republican Party."

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