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View Diary: Norway refuses to starve Palestinians for Israel (268 comments)

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  •  You know, I first read this diary (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    npbeachfun, blueness, howardx

    at work, when I wasn't logged on.

    My immediate reaction?  "Oh, shit.  shergald is up to his old tricks."

    By the time I got home, Hunter had already deleted the text.

    I don't know what he was thinking, but he made this one super-obvious.  I wonder if he's not testing some new system to mask his I/P.

    •  Of course (0+ / 0-)

      if that's the plan, the only solution is a 9//1 discussion type solution.

      Not, presumably, that Trollgald cares about that.

    •  litho: (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      howardx

      do you, or anyone else that you know of, have any influence at all with shergald these days? Or is he now completely a rogue poster?

      •  He's a rogue (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        npbeachfun, blueness, howardx

        as far as I know.

        I know that I have no influence with him.

        •  understood (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          howardx

          I was just hoping maybe somebody could try to reason with him.  But I guess it's too late for that.

          •  I've tried (4+ / 0-)

            I believe other folks have, too.

            I don't think he's going to stop.

            I do think we should continue discussing I/P here on dkos, because I do believe the discussions have been particularly productive recently.

            If admin chooses to close it down because of shergald, I think they'll be making a big mistake.

            •  i fear that (5+ / 0-)

              if the administrators shut down I/P now, it would be interpreted (at least by some) as validating shergald's most paranoid assertions: that the site is permeated by "GIYUS trolls," and controlled by "Zionists."

              The productivity of the discussions waxes and wanes, and I suppose it always will. Because I think shergald's continuing follies only serve to increasingly irritate the administrators about the whole I/P subject, I think it would be wise if those who post on the subject put some extra effort into always trying to connect the discussion to Democratic politics. With a solid Democratic Party tie-in, it would be hard to argue the subject should go. But the more it degenerates into trading blows like "Ps blow people up"/"Is practice apartheid," unmoored from any domestic US political considerations, the more tempted, I would think, the admins might be to just shut the whole thing down.

              •  I wish my brain could always work that way (4+ / 0-)

                but it doesn't.

                You know, a useful metaphor here might be pure vs. applied research.  Ask any physicist, and they can give you a great rationale for spending tons of money on pure research, even if there are no practical applications in sight.

                The same thing goes for the I/P debate.  We're trying to figure out what's the best way to get to peace in the Middle East, and we actually do reproduce some of the arguments the participants themselves engage.

                If we can work our way towards a common understanding, we might actually produce something a president or a Speaker might be able to use to guide their policy decisions.

                At least, that's what I hope for.  And it's what keeps me discussing the issue here.  Having to tie it down immediately to "how can this help Democrats get elected" would occasionally be too restrictive.

                In the long run, I think our discussion can help Democrats get elected, and even more important govern effectively so they can get reelected time and time again.  In the short run, that question might actually lead us in the wrong direction.

                •  sure, i understand (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  litho, npbeachfun, howardx, Terra Mystica

                  I'm just thinking that even what might seem like little things might help direct the debate into more "mainstream" channels.

                  For instance (and believe it or not) I would like Democratic Congressmembers to be more sympathetic to the Palestinians. But I don't even know who are the Democratic Congressmembers who currently show the most sympathy, and who those are who might be most easily persuaded . . . or what might persuade them.

                  If, say, a diary is posted about some horror like Palestinian women stopped and forced to give birth at Israeli checkpoints, maybe the diarist could include contact information for those representatives most likely to try to do something about it, even if it's only making noise.

                  Or, if a diary decries American armaments sold and employed by the Israelis, contact information could be supplied for mainstream US organizations that work to retard US arms sales.

                  Things like that. I know that for more esoteric, theoretical diaries, like your series on the one-state solution, a list of Congressmembers would be pretty much out of place. But I think a lot of the day-to-day diaries on the subject could easily include info providing a Democratic Party tie-in.

                  For instance, when I read a diary about the forced-labor horror, it left me very upset, and I wanted to be able to do something. If the diary had included the addresses of some Democratic Congressmembers, you can be damn sure I would have written to them.

                  Another thing that could happen is that people here could try to come to some sort of understanding of what the net-roots would like to require, in the way of I/P, of these people who want to be our Democratic candidate for president. We could try to come up with what would be basically a party platform position on I/P that we would like to see these people endorse. Sure, we'll probably all tear each other's hair out trying to come up with such a thing, but at least we'll be clawing away in the context of Democratic politics.

                  Just some thoughts.  

              •  good call (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                npbeachfun, blueness, Terra Mystica

                some of i/p does get out in the weeds as far as us political considerations go, thats a very good suggestion blueness.

                ramalamadingdong forever

                by howardx on Fri Apr 27, 2007 at 03:15:32 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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