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View Diary: A Fine Example of "Christian" Love (109 comments)

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  •  agreed (0+ / 0-)

    I have been to many small churches that are doing good things in the world.
    My experience is also that the more corporatized they become, the less they are interested in doing good works. With the exeption of my posts title
    "fuck organized religion", which I withdraw, I stand by what I said. I made no argument. If the metaphor "heads up their asses" doesn't work for you, pick another that would fit that type of collective above the law behavior.
    First they chop down your trees, next year you are tied to one of theirs, burning.

    The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same." Carlos Castaneda

    by FireCrow on Mon May 07, 2007 at 05:50:44 PM PDT

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    •  asdf (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ahianne, irishwitch, Cassandra Waites

      My experience is also that the more corporatized they become, the less they are interested in doing good works.

      Exactly right; it's the ones who become entrenched and try to maintain their personal status quo that you have to watch out for.

      If the metaphor "heads up their asses" doesn't work for you, pick another that would fit that type of collective above the law behavior.

      My point is that their behavior has nothing to do with Christianity; they were a mob, pure and simple. For whatever reason, they felt they could get away with this (probably because they already had gotten away with it once). This was a bunch of goons who happened to meet inside a building with "Church" written on it; this was not the act of true Christians.

      I'm not disagreeing with you, exactly, just asking that you (and everyone else) not lump all Christians into the same category. I am a Christian, and I would never condone actions such as these.

      Yes, that sequence of words I just said made perfect sense.

      by sbdenmon on Mon May 07, 2007 at 06:07:27 PM PDT

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      •  I get your point (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sbdenmon, DeannaHawk

        but.. when people who gather in a building that everyone on earth would recognize as a "christian" building and a name on it everyone recognizes as a "christian" denomination, and a tax exempt status to boot, don't you think it's a bit disingenuous to try to make them out as something other than what they claim to be?  I'm on your side here, what I have a hard time with is that people like yourself who do in fact live a life devoted to the promotion of christs love and ideals, are willing to tolerate these fake bastards that are destroying the public image of christianity. If they do not represent the christian family then maybe it's time to clean house.
        Let me try it this way: A father knows some of his many sons are out breaking the law, causing trouble and hurting people, the rest of the family doesn't like it but it's tolerated until one of them gets caught. The family avoided doing anything about it till now because it's uncomfortable. The father does not now dismiss him as not being part of his family or pretend not to know him or call him a different last name.
        He brings him home,  talks to him, explains to him again, with patience, the rules and character the  family lives by. He  watches over and supervise him. If this does not work and he refuses against all the familiy members wishes then he is expelled, his name taken and cast off to his fate.

        My point is that their behavior has nothing to do with Christianity; they were a mob, pure and simple. For whatever reason, they felt they could get away with this (probably because they already had gotten away with it once). This was a bunch of goons who happened to meet inside a building with "Church" written on it; this was not the act of true Christians.

        These people are the ones who are destroying the church from within.
        Saying they are not christians is true on a intellectual  level, on paper and in the publics eye, they quite certainly are.

        The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same." Carlos Castaneda

        by FireCrow on Mon May 07, 2007 at 06:43:38 PM PDT

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        •  asdf (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ahianne, FireCrow, Cassandra Waites

          don't you think it's a bit disingenuous to try to make them out as something other than what they claim to be?

          Their actions proclaim that they are not Christian; I fail to see how my pointing that out is disingenuous.

          . . . people like yourself . . . are willing to tolerate these fake bastards that are destroying the public image of christianity. If they do not represent the christian family then maybe it's time to clean house.

          Serious question here: what would you have me do? In this particular case, I am not Methodist, I am not a member of the offending church, I do not live in the town in question. I've already sent emails to the addresses given in both the diary and comments, as well as one to the senior pastor of my own church. I will donate to this couple's legal fund, if it comes to that. What else would you have me do? I hold no position of power over these people; I don't have the ability to hold them accountable.

          In a general sense, I often hear comments to the effect of, "You need to police your own. You need to clean house." What can I say to make you realize that these people are not my own, in any sense of the word? I am a member of a large, nondenominational Christian congregation; we do not support, financially or otherwise, any church organization: not the UMC, not the SBC, not the Vatican, not any of them. We as a church have broken from the heirarchies and hypocritical tenets of those groups; we have no power over them, nor they over us. How can we possibly police their actions?

          We can only do what is within our ability to do: live by the Word, and walk the walk. "Love the Lord with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself."

          Yes, that sequence of words I just said made perfect sense.

          by sbdenmon on Mon May 07, 2007 at 07:11:32 PM PDT

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    •  In reality, the WORST churches-- (4+ / 0-)

      the ones most likely to be scary--are the non-denominational ones. They don't belong to a group and their preaches don't have to go through a seminary.   They pretty much make it up as they go along and usually follow a charismatic preacher.

      In fact. one of the best organized churches,the Episcopalian, is also among the most liberal.

      sbdemom is right. You are painting with too broad a brush.  I left Catholicism and became a Wiccan because I ws frustrated by Ca0htolicism's handling of sexuality, birth control, abortion, women's roles, and homosexuality. But despite all my problems with them, I see a lot of good that is done by  laity and clergy and nuns alike. A religion is MORE than just its hierarchy or official teachings. Catholciism, for example, works best a the parish level.--you hear a lot of bishopos yammering abotu denbying communion to pols, but you seldom hear a sound from the parish priests whoa ctuallyw ould be faced witht he decision--ebcause they, unlike the bishops, exist in relaity.

      The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

      by irishwitch on Mon May 07, 2007 at 07:06:39 PM PDT

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