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View Diary: Updated-USAGate: Big analysis by Kos Volunteers (221 comments)

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  •  Ok here we go. (0+ / 0-)

    "Now, given the White House claims they "lost" 5 million emails when they switched from Lotus mail to Outlook, but this was only now discovered when Congress was asking for the emails, it seems highly likely that there are MANY IT system facets that the Dems seem clueless about, or at least, too glib about, if not arrogant -- as in "of COURSE we understand all of that, what do you think we are, stupid?"

    Senators vote on things they have little knowledge about all of the time.  One of my state’s Senators admitted as much.  Leahy and Conyers need help to understand what is happening and what is possible.

    "What I am taking away from your comment-thruline is that your view is: If that unscrubbed data can't be obtained for sophisticated analysis, then the efforts of analyzing that which HAS been produced (the work that drational & team are doing, as well as a team at TPM Muckraker) is either of limited value, or even of no value.

    What I am saying is that although you have done a very  good analysis, it takes more than you have to get an indictment and more still to put somebody behind bars.  I am not criticizing, but that is a fact.  This does little to explain how the FBI schmooze judges to do it, but Dkos folks don’t have their pseudo credibility.  The FBI lie and get title III warrants all the time.

    "How likely do you think it is that a DailyKos member would be issued a security clearance to deal with the unredacted data?"

    Internal white House email(s) will not be given unredacted to Democrats... bank on it.

    "Scubbed data is useless."

    Scrubbed link analysis data tells:

    Who is talking to who.
    When did they talk.

    Unscrubbed link analysis with metadata data gives far more.  

    "I take that very seriously. And I do not underestimate what you are saying."

    I have been subjected to physical and metal intimidation.  My old apartment and house had been searched.  One listening device was found in my apartment with an RF probe.  Two cameras with pictures of persons involved with harassment were taken from both a vehicle I own and my house.  I was threatened with a law enforcement interview the evening my father was recovering from quadruple cardiac bypass.  At least one friend has come forward as having been interviewed regarding their opinion of  my allegiance to my country.   While probing several networks that attack my network I have run across something (IT data filtering and probing activities) with a sub-network name of "Sentinel"  as well as interesting IP masking activities occuring in DC, New Jersey, San Francisco, a suburb of Denver Colorado, and upstate New York.  All of this was given to several members of the Senate Judiciary Committee and they have left me to swing in the wind.  You think you have problems?

    Mueller and Gonzo would rather see me dead than give me access to information that could put their cronies behind bars.

    BushCo Policy... If you aren't outraged, you haven't been paying attention. -3.25 -2.26

    by Habanero on Sat May 12, 2007 at 02:51:00 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  replies (2) (0+ / 0-)

      > Senators vote on things they have little knowledge about all of the time.  One of my state’s Senators admitted as much.

      This was, of course, dramatically demonstrated in Michael Moore's "F9/11" movie, when he drove around the Capitol asking if anyone had actually read the Patriot Act.

      > Leahy and Conyers need help to understand what is happening and what is possible.

      The only practical way that I can think of to make this happen is to create a collaborative project via a DIARY at dKos, requesting that people call these offices, ask to speak to a top-level Deputy of these Congressmen, with the specific intent to get some kind of commitment from a Deputy that he/she will designate a specific point person/ email address for use in enabling serious communication between diarists at dKos and a senior staff member within the offices of these Committee Chairs.

      This would not be that hard to do... One of my diaries shows that it is not that hard to work one;s way up the phone tree to then speak to a Committee staffer. And if there is a process created here at dKos by the community members themselves, that either designates a few "trusted" advocates from the body of diarists here as people who are given that special means to contact the Committee staffers directly, or develops and specifies another means to gets information to these offices-- without opening the floodgates of having everyone able to send email to this designated address (which then just pollutes the channel), then I believe we could get the cooperative commitments needed with senior staffers on these committees that would enable real-time exchanges or escalated methods of communicating important information that should be shared with the Committee Chairs themselves.

      > What I am saying is that although you have done a very  good analysis, it takes more than you have to get an indictment and more still to put somebody behind bars.  I am not criticizing, but that is a fact.  This does little to explain how the FBI schmooze judges to do it, but Dkos folks don’t have their pseudo credibility.  The FBI lie and get title III warrants all the time.

      Clarification: I am not working on this project. I am just a site participant who commented on the thread. "drational" was the thread-writer and project-lead.

      > Scrubbed link analysis data tells:

      Who is talking to who.
      When did they talk.

      Unscrubbed link analysis with metadata data gives far more.

       

      Understood. I'm not trying to nickel-and-dime your use of words, but from where I sit, as a spectator, though scrubbed link analysis is very limited compared to unscribbed, it nevertheless yields valuable knowledge that could, if made known to the Committee Chairs, at minimum, help formulate specific questions to ask some of the witnesses.

      > I have been subjected to physical and metal intimidation.  ...One listening device was found ...Two cameras with pictures of persons involved... threatened with a law enforcement interview the evening my father ... friend...interviewed regarding their opinion of  my allegiance to my country... I have run across something...with a sub-network name of "Sentinel"  as well as interesting IP masking ....All of this was given to several members of the Senate Judiciary Committee and they have left me to swing in the wind.  You think you have problems?

      Having previously said I don't underestimate any of this, I am simply staying neutral in tone here: nothing of what you mention surpirses me. Q: ARE you aware of the EFF lawsuit on behalf of the ATT whistleblower?

      just in case: here are links:
      http://www.wired.com/...
      http://www.eff.org/...
      http://news.com.com/...
      http://www.salon.com/...

      > Mueller and Gonzo would rather see me dead than give me access to information that could put their cronies behind bars.

      If this is so, due to specific information you are thought to have, I hope you have contacted EFF. If not, do so please.

      •  I am fully aware of the EFF lawsuit. (0+ / 0-)

        As I had mentioned above, if two Senators have been made aware of and been given tangible proof (they were) and they choose to do nothing, I don't hold out much hope for their assistance.  

        Mueller & Gonzo would not send somebody to "get me."  My point is that they would not and have done do nothing to protect me either.  Two of their monkeys attempted to started a physical confrontation with me and where I live you get shot if you fight a law enforcement officer.  The end result would be the same.  Entrapment is the other issue.  

        Anyway, on to our original topic.

        So do you have a group that is prepared to ask Leahy and Conyer's people for the raw email in electronic format and the background data on the persons who sent them?  The same would be needed for the organizations they are affiliated with?

        BushCo Policy... If you aren't outraged, you haven't been paying attention. -3.25 -2.26

        by Habanero on Sun May 13, 2007 at 04:55:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  the answer to that question is no. (0+ / 0-)

          i'm not on drational's project team, i'm working on something else, and just posted in this thread because I have been following drational's work here. That's the whole backstory.

          I have no idea if drational has returned to this thread at all after it's initial 24-hour run; he's created diaries since this one, so our "conversation" here is probably like 2 trees in a forest. He posts his email address in his profile, so maybe you would like to ask him those questions; he may have had some form of contact with thise committees, but i have no idea.

          So, thank you for laying it on the line, helping me to understand your original intent. I have great respect for you and understand the insanity-provoking futility of some battles, when supposed allies won't or don't step up.

          •  Hmmm.... I presumed (I know, bad to do it) (0+ / 0-)

            that you folks were already forming a group to approach the Judiciary Committees.  I will have consider what if anything I can do to help you folks with some of my skills.

            Thank you for your supporting statement.  We live in unusual times and we now have a governing body that would not know "rule of law" if it whacked them up side the head.  It is so strange that guy who signs bills into law and his organs of enforcement don't have to follow the same.  

            Good thing I never give up.

            BushCo Policy... If you aren't outraged, you haven't been paying attention. -3.25 -2.26

            by Habanero on Mon May 14, 2007 at 04:12:38 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  great attitude! (0+ / 0-)

              and yes, it's hard to recognize this country.

              Since I am not on this project (I'm working on another one), I can just ask that maybe you email drational (drational AT yahoo ). I will also email him and suggest he read through our sub-thread.

              Best regards,
              rhfactor

              •  Their company has responded and I hope to (0+ / 0-)

                either buy a time limited version of the application which is discounted, or the full version if available at a fair cost for a noble purpose?  

                My time and dollars are availabe only if Leahy or Conyers can provide all of the unredated data.  

                FYI - Regarding the internet portion of the wiretap program Comey won't name...  it is "Sentinel."  

                http://www.dailykos.com/...

                Remember you heard it here first; I caught the bastards and I know how they do it and at least six locations where they do it.

                BushCo Policy... If you aren't outraged, you haven't been paying attention. -3.25 -2.26

                by Habanero on Tue May 15, 2007 at 02:08:28 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I read that Comey thread today (0+ / 0-)

                  Let me just ask -- so that I do not "assume" and make ass of myself :)

                  These committee members must know the name Sentinel and some of its operational characteristics, no? ?

                  Or does this fall into the category of "they are so far behind the tech curve that they wouldn't even know the name of Carnivore and Escehlon" (I only know those programs by name, I don't know who uses them and for what -- but I believe one is an FBI operation, and the other is an NSA operation.)

                  QUESTION:

                  I'm assuming in this case that you've very long ago given up the idea that communications like this public one are not being looked at or tracked, correct?

                  My assumption is that they ARE tracked, but I'm not a tech/engineer so I wouldn't know. I just know that from the whole ATT employee whisteblower case and the NSA room in a San Francisco ATT hub, as revealed in that WIRED magazine article when it came out (has it been 2 years?), the engineer who discovered the splitting off of the trunk lines was saying that they, in effect, were capable of monitoring every single phone call and internet transmission, period.

                  It's interesting to me that America has seemed just fine & dandy with idea that every single phone call of every  person in the Unites States has been logged, if not recorded in some media format... And that Verizon and ATT gladly handed over the keys to their customers' data.

                  Anyway, my question is this: Given the likelihood that this could be read by one or more of those surveillance systems as soon as I hit "publish", through sophisticated keyword and IP monitoring, have you more or less chosen to communicate everything you say about these issues publicly, in forums like this, under the premise that there IS NO secure method you could otherwise communicate these items, so may as well just post publicly... ?

                  Hmm, I guess the reason you have not emailed drational is that you don't feel comfortable using email?

                  •  At the risk of assuming myself..... (0+ / 0-)

                    I am sure that at least the select committee on intelligence and the judiciary committee would have been read in, but how could I know?  I am pretty sure they could never say if they knew.

                    What I found out occurred because my system was being probed regularly and in detectable ways.  I then conducted my own experiments downloading certain web content, visiting certain sites, and using certain MS character sets to see what triggers these activities and what does not seem to. Their system probed my network and I probed back not originally knowing who it was.  

                    The most important fact is that EVERYTHING I had tested with was FIRST AMENDMENT PROTECTED MATERIALS.

                    "Given the likelihood that this could be read by one or more of those surveillance systems as soon as I hit "publish", through sophisticated keyword and IP monitoring, have you more or less chosen to communicate everything you say about these issues publicly, in forums like this, under the premise that there IS NO secure method you could otherwise communicate these items, so may as well just post publicly... ?"

                    DING!

                    Not only likely, it is happening when I am on DailyKos.

                    BushCo Policy... If you aren't outraged, you haven't been paying attention. -3.25 -2.26

                    by Habanero on Wed May 16, 2007 at 07:33:50 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I'm not clear -- what were the triggers? (0+ / 0-)

                      or I mean trigger factors that you concluded were part of the listening algorithms?

                      for example, DID the character sets make a difference?

                      Did the type of sites make a difference, and so on.

                      Also, am I to assume that you use one or more anonymizers or proxies so as not to so readily release your IP, or have you also given up on protecting your IP -- since their systems can penetrate anonymizers & proxies & extract the source IP?

                      If they have your IPs, then is any of the research useful, since the global variable would be:

                      if <IP address> in use, track and record all activity.

                      I understand the basic logic of software, but as I said, anything more technical than the above and i will glaze my eyes over without comprehending.

                      ALso, just to get your take on this:

                      IF:

                      Everything you do on dkos is watched/tracked/perhaps recorded, then which is the most likely scenario:

                      (1) as a matter of fact, EVERYONE who posts at DK is being monitored with high scrutiny ...

                      or
                      (2) I know for sure, or pretty darn sure, that anyone who engages me (you) online here is being tracked as well.

                      (3) It varies. It's resource intensive so sometimes there may be a randomizer involved so as to cut down on low-liklihood traitor-hood ?

                      I just invented that word:  traitor-hood ... The state of being in defiance of the GOP and its party control over the US Government by raising flags at any and all exmaples of first-amendment abridgment by GOP and its federal agents, and making public the criminal acts of the bush administration.

                      Is that a successful definition of traitorhood?

                      And finally --- in all seriousness -- I cannot believe that a high percentage of FBI/NSA/other surveillance agency employess agree to work on these clearly anti-American programs beung run by these agencies in open defiance of Congress and the U.S. Constitution.

                      So, (a) how do these employees who DO perform these illegal monitoring activities, such as reading this right now, square that with their oaths of office or oaths to protect & defend the US Constitution?

                      (b) DO they simply set their brain's constitutional filtration tolerance to zero and thus not factor it into anything they do at all.  

                      (c) Or do you believe some of them simply believe in doing anything they are told to do by a superior to whom they report -- legalities of such orders being non-operative considerations?

                      (d) do you think, for one moment, for one nano-second, that any of the people on the job right now monitoring via use of sentinel, carnivore, eschelon and Cheneyon, actually believe they are in fact protecting America and our way of life -- in the very performance of their surveillance using these illegal methods?

                      (e) are there any, do you think, who lay awake at night and wonder how they've gotten to this place where the thing they worked so hard to be good at was now being used to tear down America vs protect & defend it?

                      •  FYI I am no expert, I know a bit and they (0+ / 0-)

                        make lots of mistakes.

                        "for example, DID the character sets make a difference?"

                        Hebrew and Arabic did.

                        "Did the type of sites make a difference, and so on."

                        Yes, sites with dissenting speech such as DailyKos, foreign news websites in the UK, Germany as did using the search engine fireball.de, certain distasteful websites in Brazil, etc... downloading a copy of the Koran, sending email(s) to relatives expressing serious dislike of BushCo policies, but never threats.

                        "Also, am I to assume that you use one or more anonymizers or proxies so as not to so readily release your IP, or have you also given up on protecting your IP."

                        No anonymizer for me, however they mask their IPs, and no I have zero inclination to let the cat out of the bag how it is detectable.  I will worry when I can no longer figure out how they do that.  Why should I anonymize, I would tell George Bush to go straight to hell right to his face, why cover it up.  

                        "(3) It varies" This option.

                        "And finally --- in all seriousness -- I cannot believe that a high percentage of FBI/NSA/other surveillance agency employess agree to work on these clearly anti-American programs beung run by these agencies in open defiance of Congress and the U.S. Constitution."

                        Blind faith in a corrupt institution.  Regarding the companies who helped it was $$$$$$

                        Google Comversys, Infosys, and Verint.  

                        Multimillion dollar contract right after September 11th.  Remember when John Ashcroft said we want people to talk and Ari Flesher (spelling) said "people need to watch what they say?

                        Keyword(s) and connection(s) are the backbone of how this occurs.  When a target of interest is located it takes very little to have your browser give much info including your email address.

                        Also read up on "webcrawlers."  The FBI love those.

                        To your final question I would reply that those whose work fly in the face of thier oath to uphold the Constitution, they should restrict their activities to ONLY catching terrorists because that threat is real.  Any other data obtained should be declared fruit of the poison tree.

                        BushCo Policy... If you aren't outraged, you haven't been paying attention. -3.25 -2.26

                        by Habanero on Wed May 16, 2007 at 05:15:44 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

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