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View Diary: The mechanisim to end democracy? (29 comments)

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  •  Wasn't that what Ike was really talking about? (3+ / 0-)

    Wasn't this what Ike was really talking about back when he warned us in 1960?

    This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

    I'm 47 and vividly remember watching the Watergate hearings.  I remember the Iran-Contra hearings, too . . . and I never imagined that some day an administration would push the ball over the line in the way this administration has.

    Ike is looking awful prescient these days -- but it seems to me like the war may have already been lost.

    ~j

    •  Not lost yet (1+ / 0-)
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      TocqueDeville

      The election last Nov. was possibly the start of turning this around.

      When (if) we elect Al Gore in 08, and if he brings genuine warrior-statesmen like Wes Clark into positions of power, we have a chance to deal with this directly.

      In a sense, the Bush II presidency was a good thing, although it's so hard to say that. But the Bush administration has pushed this so far over the line that it will (hopefully) force us to face the fact, that as TocqueDeville said above, "the national security state is now the greatest threat to our national security".

      It had to come to this eventually. We are very lucky that the administration that pushed it over the line turned out to be so incompetent that they have alienated a large part of the military, and now the majority of the citizens of this country. If they had been competent, we would really be in trouble.

      We are about to enter a time where there is a great opportunity to effect major change.

      The exposing of the national security state, along with the galvanizing problems of massive debt, peak oil, and global climate change, will bring an opportunity we have not seen since FDR and the Great Depression. FDR was able to launch the New Deal, create Social Security, and make other major improvements in the way our government works because the situation was so bad. He was able to roll over the opposition because of it.

      Bush is the Hoover of our time, except this will even be a bigger change.

      We are living in great times. Get ready.

      "Like the mirror told me this morning, it's all done with people" - Wavy Gravy

      by offgrid on Fri May 11, 2007 at 01:04:35 AM PDT

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      •  All true (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        offgrid

        but not if a nuke goes off in Washington.

        These are crazy old men. 9/11 happened on their watch and they wrung that out for every last drop of political capital.

        They already ignore the constitution. So a nuke in Washington would offer a convenient excuse to make their contempt for democracy formal, with martial law.

        Martial law would see sites like dKos closed down immediately. A substantial percentage of the population would support martial law after a nuclear decapitation. A smaller minority wouldn't. An even smaller minority would be prepared to do something about it. But by that point the US would be a Soviet-style police state, and it would take a monumental effort to restore any semblance of democracy.

        So the fact of a nuke attack would provide a convenient excuse to eliminate democracy altogether.

        And there are people in Washington who really wouldn't mind that one bit.

        "Be kind" - is that a religion?

        by ThatBritGuy on Fri May 11, 2007 at 02:55:23 AM PDT

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        •  This is certainly a risk (0+ / 0-)

          Hopefully it's too late for them to pull a stunt like that. There are many in the military, and within the intel services, that are onto the threat to our country from within.

          I never though that I would be supporting members within the CIA and military. These are strange times indeed.

          "Like the mirror told me this morning, it's all done with people" - Wavy Gravy

          by offgrid on Fri May 11, 2007 at 01:03:20 PM PDT

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      •  Offgrid, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        offgrid

        I have been making those points to my friends during times of great head banging, but the point here is that we may not get to January of 09 with the Country intact.  It may just be my paranoia speaking but it seems that it wouln't need to be a nuclear explosion, but something like a bird flu outbreak or another terrorist attack.  If it were a dirty bomb attack the idea could be conflated in the public's mind of a "nuclear" attack and there we go.

        If it were bird flu this would be tough to respond to because people would want to stay home and wouldn't participate in any mass protest.  Hopefully Congress will keep chipping away at the credibility of this criminal enterprise and they won't have the capapcity to even consider something like this.  

        •  I think that it's too late for this (0+ / 0-)

          The Neo-Cons have lost too much credibility within the inner workings of the military and intel community.

          I hope.

          "Like the mirror told me this morning, it's all done with people" - Wavy Gravy

          by offgrid on Fri May 11, 2007 at 01:05:21 PM PDT

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