Skip to main content

View Diary: What the immigration debate is REALLY about (64 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Republican's Sponsors (6+ / 0-)

    Well there's zero chance that any meaningful fraction of 12 million people in this wealth range are going to spend on transportation to leave their families and the country for no prospects while they fill out paperwork to turn around and come back. They'll either spend their lives renewing Z visas and never gaining the vote, or remain underground never gaining the vote which fixes nothing.

    But business benefits immediately because the large cheap labor pool becomes formalized.

    If I understand reports correctly, the Latino population votes generally left but most of it stays home. So I'm not sure either party gains or loses many votes.

    Surprising as it may seem, I think business is the winner.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Fri May 18, 2007 at 07:39:08 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  But their kids... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      eugene, buddabelly, hypersphere01

      are full citizens.  And the more they see their parents harassed and abused, the more they will turn out and the more they will vote against the interests of the corporations treating their parents like slaves.

      Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

      by ChicagoDem on Fri May 18, 2007 at 07:47:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  the woman in Chicago (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sooner

        was deported 3 times, given a hearing, comes to the US again has a baby for the sole purpose to evade stop at deportation and gain sympathy and now is on public assistance.

        I support that racist wing nut Senator from Montana, Jon Testor.

        Tester said his first priority is to "secure ports and borders to keep out terror threats, illegal drugs and illegal immigrants." Opposing a path to citizenship for immigrants is "not just a matter of fairness," Tester's campaign website said, "it's a question of national security."

        •  Well, he's wrong (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          theran

          I think it's a pretty huge claim to say that someone had a child just to "gain sympathy".  What are you basing that characterization on?  Have you talked to this woman?  Do you know anything about this woman other than information on anti-immigrant websites/papers/shows?  Why do we always assume that difficult situations like this are always premeditated political acts?

          I care about national security and drug smuggling too, but it seems pretty clear to me that our current system doesn't handle that well at all.  And increasing the retaliatory parts of it won't do much either.  The problem isn't that people from other countries work in the United States -- the problem is that there's a huge community that the government really can't contain or control.  The problem with illegal immigration is that you're creating a class of "illegal" people.

          So why not change the whole system?  If you want to work in America, great, but you need an ID, a background check, and maybe a fee.  If you've ever been a member of any gang or political organization hostile to the US, you don't get in.  No getting hung up on national identity, language, and all the other silly coded punitive measures.  Make legality a serious option and make it easy to get.  After it's actually matching demand, go after the undocumented people because they're the ones who are really trying to get around the law.  As it stands we're arresting dock workers and losing gang leaders, because it's a lot easier to pick the low hanging fruit.

          Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

          by ChicagoDem on Fri May 18, 2007 at 09:47:10 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  She acknowledged what she did (0+ / 0-)

            In you utopia there are no laws, no crime, and we should welcome and "pay" for the millions who suffer. If I lived there i would agree.

            Why do you think Gates does not spend all his money on drugs for HIV, because the problems are systemic and need government solutions. Not an american open border with no controls on the number of people who can immigrate.

    •  Aww the truth of immigration refom, (4+ / 0-)

      dems want votes and repukes want cheap labor and america loses...

      •  The oldest political party on the planet... (4+ / 0-)

        and we've been pro-immigrant virtually the whole time. Why stop now?

        Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

        by ChicagoDem on Fri May 18, 2007 at 08:00:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We should not forget the word "legal" (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sooner, philimus

          we conveniently forget to use the word "legal" in the conversation...

          •  "Legal" immigration is a fiction (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            eugene, theran, Ahianne, Mooncat, heiderose1

            It was not the policy of this country throughout most of its history, and it's never stopped people from coming to this country for the same reason your ancestors did -- to build a better life.  Either they win the "visa lottery" at home, or they find some other way around the problem (false marriage, overstaying on a "visit", etc...).  And it's really easy to find a way around the "problem" when your only boundary is an imaginary line in the sand.  These restriction laws were based on racial paranoia, and their only true impact has been to create a class of ghost workers that undercut American wages and labor standards.

            Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

            by ChicagoDem on Fri May 18, 2007 at 08:14:37 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  i see so every country in the world (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sooner, MadGeorgiaDem, philimus

              including mexico has immigration laws, but god forbid we should think america should have an Immigration law and policy.

              IC, the one world theory, with USA and gloibal Czar...give me a break...

              •  They're ineffectual but symoblic laws (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                eugene, theran, Ahianne, heiderose1

                Meant to stir up populist sentiment by railing against "outsiders".  But every country that creates "legal" and "illegal" status also has an illegal immigration problem that stokes resentment and creates a whole population of scabs.  It's stupid.  Illegal immigrants today are taking the place of African Americans between Reconstruction and the Civil Rights movement -- a cheap labor force that can undercut organized workers because the laws just don't apply to them.  

                Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

                by ChicagoDem on Fri May 18, 2007 at 08:24:06 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Let me put it this way... (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  eugene, theran, heiderose1, mariachi mama

                  Those Irish, Italian, Russian, and Eastern European immigrants in the early 20th Century that we write songs about and make movies glorifying would be "illegals" under today's policy.  But they were able to work here under the same laws, make unions, and force the government and corporations to respect them.  We're keeping the bulk of new Latinos from doing that, and that's allowing the corporations to keep right on exploiting them.

                  Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

                  by ChicagoDem on Fri May 18, 2007 at 08:29:02 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  and for every dollar contributed (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    sooner

                    to the well being of the nation they cost 3.00. I take the san e position as Senator Testor, you remember somoeone given strong support on this site.
                    "Tester said his first priority is to "secure ports and borders to keep out terror threats, illegal drugs and illegal immigrants." Opposing a path to citizenship for immigrants is "not just a matter of fairness," Tester's campaign website said, "it's a question of national security."

                    •  Link please. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      RunawayRose, theran

                      Give a source for your assertion that "they cost 3.00" for every dollar they contribute, or expect your argument to be considered baseless.

                      Who you gonna call?

                      by Ahianne on Fri May 18, 2007 at 09:16:47 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  I support security checks (0+ / 0-)

                      And I support verifying the identity of every person entering the country.  Hell, I even support issuing strong biometric IDs.  But you can do that without maintaining a completely fictional and bogus visa system that falls so far behind the actual migration demand that most people just ignore it.  Fight illegal drugs and screen for terrorists?  Great!  But "illegal immigrants" are only "illegal" thanks to a stupid quirk in the law.  Far better to let in everyone who wants, but check each and every one of them than to just encourage people to slip in through the cracks.

                      Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

                      by ChicagoDem on Fri May 18, 2007 at 09:23:13 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  ic...lets just elimiate ICE all together. (0+ / 0-)

                        send that message to 1 billion people living on 2.00 per day.

                        •  Sure (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          theran

                          And a few people will get here, find out the job market suddenly sucks now that employers can't pay them $3.50 an hour any more, and most will stop.

                          I have relatives in India, and I've seen what's happened as the market for labor has softened here and tightened there.  Suddenly that US visa is much less of a big deal.  Although I'm sure people have problems with that too...

                          Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

                          by ChicagoDem on Fri May 18, 2007 at 09:59:05 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  And India is your example of a progressive nation (0+ / 0-)

                            with poverty level unimaginable in this nation.
                            3.50 an hour is a lot better than 3.00 a day. i worked in India and you should not use them as an example where people cannot wait to immigrate too... As for rest of the world, i repeat what happened today in the EU.

                            EU, UK tough on illegal immigrants, employers
                            By Syful Islam from Sweden
                            Thu, 17 May 2007, 14:06:00

                            Email this article
                            Printer friendly page
                            Access News Photos

                            Those who are planning to go and work in European States and the United Kingdom illegally should pause their preparation as the immigration authorities are taking tougher measures to prevent illegal migrant.
                            To this effect both the EU and the UK has planned tough fines and prison sentences for the employers of illegal immigrants. The UK Home Office published a consultation paper on its plans and invited comments on Tuesday while the EU on Wednesday drafted a law.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site