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View Diary: What the immigration debate is REALLY about (64 comments)

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  •  Another Take: Ireland Made College Free 20 yr Ago (4+ / 0-)
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    ChicagoDem, eugene, sooner, cjallen

    or so, and now their economy leads Europe, and they've been recalling emigrants for the first time in like 5,000 years.

    Ireland, unlike the US, is a largely homogenous population of mostly one people who aren't divided into large factions at culture and class war against each other.

    No way the US will ever take such a step. Never with education; still not especially likely even with health care. Several of our factions do not tolerate the notion of paying to support their enemies.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Fri May 18, 2007 at 07:43:33 AM PDT

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    •  Ireland is Catholic and Protestant (0+ / 0-)

      and they don't get along very well..

      i think they still live apart. although, things have gotten better, some of the problems have stuck around.

      Don't fight it son. Confess quickly! If you hold out too long you could jeopardize your credit rating. --Brazil (1985)

      by hypersphere01 on Fri May 18, 2007 at 08:03:06 AM PDT

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    •  Well, may be if you knock off a 0. (1+ / 0-)
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      Going back that far, you got the Anglo-Normans and the Vikings moving in, also the Celts who became the Irish themselves iirc. (I could go dig out several books on Irish archaeology and check the dates, but don't want to do the digging now. Maybe later. And nobody knows what the first human inhabitants of Ireland called themselves or what kind of language they spoke, but there were people there before anyone who could be certainly identified as Celtic arrived.)

      Who you gonna call?

      by Ahianne on Fri May 18, 2007 at 09:23:43 AM PDT

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    •  on school funding (0+ / 0-)

      even i feel that way....

      I prefer that my tax dollars go toward Liberal programs that aid my fellow U.S. citizens and LEGAL immigrants and not toward funding the education, health care, incarceration, etc. of citizens of OTHER COUNTRIES who entered ILLEGALLY..

      to ChicagoDem- "They're freaking out about US"
      "US" meaning what? Brown people?
      That statement smacks of racism.

      Other statements you've made in this thread regarding borders are nothing more than shallow internationalism.

      Every country on earth has the right AND the obligation to screen the applicants to its country.
      When you consider that the u.s. shares a border with a failed state (and no, i don't mean Canada) it becomes especially important to do so.

      •  Us meaning... (0+ / 0-)

        young brown children of immigrants :)

        And believe me, the Republicans are freaking out about the fact that people like me exist.  And that there are so many of us.  And that we're citizens.  And that we vote.  I'm NOT saying that anyone skeptical of immigration reform is racist.  But there is definitely a major nativist wing of the Republican anti-immigrant movement.  The kinds of people who rant about low white birth rates (insert cultural conservative slam on gays/abortion here) making "real Americans" lose ground to brown immigrants with our high birth rates, crime, welfare abuse, etc... (my parents are both professionals, but each has gotten this shtick to their faces at different times).

        As for the other thing, the immigration system in this country is broken from the immigrants' end just as much as from the citizens'.  As long as we have a system where we severely restrict entry, we make illegal status attractive even for those migrants who would rather follow the law.  I would like to see a system in which it's easier to follow the law than to ignore it.  That's not currently the case.

        Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

        by ChicagoDem on Fri May 18, 2007 at 09:55:50 AM PDT

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        •  my understanding (0+ / 0-)

          is that a million Mexicans were allowed to enter legally last year....
          Are you suggesting that every Mexican who wants in should be allowed in?
          Mexico would be cleared out in a month if you did, owing to the fact that Mexico is that fucked up.

          WHY is Mexico so dysfunctional? Is it because it's full of Mexicans and their self-created institutions?

          When you want to wage a war on crime in Mexico you start by disbanding the police department.
          No sooner is a cartel crusading police chief named than he is assassinated by drug lords.
          Obrador estimated in his book that 50% of the Mexican economy is "off the books". 50 percent!
          The people who couldn't even make it in the underground economy are sneaking in here.
          He further said that outside of oil, it's remittances and the illgal drug trade that keep Mexico afloat.

          Millions protest in Mexico it's true, but to NO EFFECT! Why? Do they have a culture of Complaint but not Completion?
          Mexico is the only country in this hemisphere MORE VIOLENT than the united states.
          Mexican children seem culturally indifferent to education compared to Asian kids. Why?
          There seems to be great racial/racist "pride" amongst Mexican Latinos here. A good thing? Why?
          Are proud, violent, human sacrificing, short-sighted, superstitious and ultimately doomed Aztecs a worthy source of cultural pride?
          Are Machismo, Alcoholism, Catholicism, Ignorance and Corruption admirable cultural traits to bring to the table?

          Add to this that WE are somewhat in the way of Mexico's destiny.
          Were it not for the social safety valve that life in the United States affords Mexicans and the Mexican government, Mexico would have had another revolution by now. A revolution they desperately need to have.

          For my part, i resent mexico dumping it's "surplus" citizenry onto my country and i resent the greedy u.s. employers who enable it.

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