Skip to main content

View Diary: Oracle opposes $1200 annual H-1b fee for $15,000 scholarships to American engineering students (63 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Corporate lies, corruption, manipulation (0+ / 0-)

    The core problem of H-1b and NIV "guest worker" programs is that the laws and regulations governing the programs were written for the benefit of corporations, with the able assistance of corporate lobbyists. It is perfectly legal for corporations to force American workers to train H-1b replacements and 1) keep work in the hands of H-1b replacements in the U.S. forever 2) facilitate offshore outsourcing of high tech work to low wage, no labor law nations such as Indian and the PRC. "Guest worker" programs have long been designed only to benefit corporations -- the faction with the most money and the most efficient lobbying groups. This is symptomatic of the corrupt, anti-democratic, and anti-worker now common place in this country.

    Lost your job to free trade, outsourcing or non-immigrant visa workers yet?

    by Info Tech Guy on Wed May 30, 2007 at 04:16:04 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  H-1 worked well for 40 years (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cacophonix

      The problems you describe are very real: outsourcing is taking place, the IT labor market is changing, and changing faster than many people can adapt. Blue collar wages, and lately also white collar salaries, have been stagnant.

      The question is whether it really has anything to do with H-1B.

      H-1 has been around since the 1950s - without a quota, without even a Labor Condition Attestation, without the skilled worker requirement, and without the six-year limit, and all that for a $120 fee.

      These restrictions and the extra fees were only added in the 1990s and 2000s.

      So I'd be hard pressed to agree that the H-1B is "business friendly" when it is actually more restrictive now than it ever was.

      How come the nearly unrestrained H-1 from 1950 didn't lead to outsourcing when the hard-to-get and expensive one from 2007 allegedly does?

      Army 1st Lt. Ehren T. Watada, Lt. Cdr USN Matthew Diaz: true American heroes.

      by sdgeek on Thu May 31, 2007 at 11:42:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Several reasons (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sdgeek

        How come the nearly unrestrained H-1 from 1950 didn't lead to outsourcing when the hard-to-get and expensive one from 2007 allegedly does?

        One reason is technology, which has made it easier for work to be sent and results to be received electronically.

        Another reason is that India invested in IT, not just through the IITs, which have been around since the 50s and 60s, but by investing in the computerization of various government agencies, which in turn fueled a huge domestic demand for IT trained people. This demand fueled the investment in IT related education, whose results are being seen today.

        All this contributes to an increase in outsourcing, and since outsourcers have found the H-1B easy to exploit for training their employees, this leads to the H-1B quota being oversubscribed in 1 day etc.

        •  Actually, I mostly disagree (0+ / 0-)

          Bottom line, though, is that it is the emergence of a new competitor, not some law, that is the "problem". Which brings me back to my original point: in a market economy, you don't outlaw the competitor. You adapt to become better and remain competitive.

          I do agree on the technology part. More specifically, the vast amount of Internet capacity built during the dotcom era - far beyond what anybody needed. As it happens, companies such as Global Crossing, Worldcom, ... etc. laid all kinds of cable crisscrossing the oceans. India happened to be at the hub of many of these cables.

          When the dotcom era crashed, most of this capacity went unused and was resold for pennies on the dollar as "dark fiber". That's why communication with India is so cheap today.

          To some extent, I also agree that India did invest in technology education, although I think that's overhyped. Part of it seems to be that the caste system held them back.

          From what I hear, India is already experiencing a worker shortage because they only trained a very small percentage of their population, and often second rate (although India also has some first-rate schools that can hold their own against MIT and Stanford).

          A lot of the "training" in India amounts to low-level coding training - I lamented that trend about the US, and it seems that a lot of India is even lower-quality.

          Where I completely disagree is the last statement:

          All this contributes to an increase in outsourcing, and since outsourcers have found the H-1B easy to exploit for training their employees, this leads to the H-1B quota being oversubscribed in 1 day etc.

          I believe that this connection between coutsourcing and H-1B is largely a myth. For that matter, this claim has only emerged fairly recently. It makes no sense because the H-1B requires that US salaries are paid, and is far too difficult to get to waste on somebody who will just go back to India.

          The reality is the reverse: H-1Bs actually prevent outsourcing. Companies often outsource because they can't get H-1Bs into the USA. That is something I have actually seen happen (and lost my job to) as early as 2002. The company in question wasn't able to find two or three software developers domestically, and at the time was hit by one of the first H-1B quota cutoffs. So they pulled up stakes, moved to Hyderabad, and laid off 50 people in California (they also moved more than 200 people from Florida to Hyderabad, but that was a call center, not IT)

          Army 1st Lt. Ehren T. Watada, Lt. Cdr USN Matthew Diaz: true American heroes.

          by sdgeek on Thu May 31, 2007 at 05:29:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site