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View Diary: Progressive Tax Reform: The Land Value Tax [w/poll] (74 comments)

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  •  I know that (0+ / 0-)

    You said it was unworkable.  I provided an example showing it was workable.

    •  No. (0+ / 0-)

      You said Taiwan was prosperous.

      As far as I know, and probably as far as you know, every single person in Taiwan hates their tax system and wishes they could do away with it.

      As far as I know, and probably as far as you know, Taiwan is prosperous despite, not because of, a cumbersome unfair system.

      December is the new September.

      by Inland on Wed Jun 13, 2007 at 10:48:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wrong (0+ / 0-)

        I said that Taiwan had a massive increase in prosperity--they started the time period nearly dirt poor though.  I wouldn't necessarily call Taiwan prosperous now, but they're doing fairly well.  I doubt either you or I know much at all about Taiwan's tax system--all I know is what I already posted.  Show me some links regarding Taiwan's awful system--it's likely people are complaining about aspects other than the land value tax there.

        •  Then you know nothing at all. (0+ / 0-)

          You don't even have a link for the statment that Taiwan even has such a system, and you can't say whether it's a disaster or not.

          You brought up Taiwan, you brought up prosperity, and it's all a waste of time.

          December is the new September.

          by Inland on Wed Jun 13, 2007 at 11:25:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Fine (0+ / 0-)

            I'll show you my link if you show me yours:
            http://www.progress.org/...

            11, Taiwan, 1940s. Old Formosa was mired in poverty and fast-breeding. Hunger afflicted the majority of people who were landless peasants. Less than 20 families monopolized the entire island. Then the Nationalist Army, led by Chiang Kai-shek, retreated to Taiwan. General Chiang figured he lost mainland China in part by not reforming land-holding. Chiang did not want to risk losing his last refuge - east of that isle lay nothing but open ocean.
            A follower of Sun Yat-sen, the father of modern China and an adherent of Henry George, Chiang knew of the Single Tax. Borrowing a page from George via Sun, the new Nationalist Government of Taiwan instituted its "land to the tiller program" which taxed farm land according to its value. Soon the large plantation owners found themselves paying out about as much in taxes as they were getting back as Rent. Being a middle-man was no longer worth the bother, so they sold off their excess to farmers at prices the peasants could afford.
            Working their own land with newly marketed fertilizers, new owners worked harder. They produced more, and after years of paying taxes to cover the onerous public debt, at last kept more and lived better. From 1950 to 1970 population growth dropped 40%, and hunger was ended. Taiwan began to set world records with growth rates of 10% per annum in their GDP and 20% in their industry. (Fred Harrison, Power in the Land)

            •  Not very illuminating. (0+ / 0-)

              It doesn't seem to even resemble the program you espouse.  Moreover, it seems to be for the purpose of redistribution of agrarian lands to farmers.  What would that have to do with america?

              December is the new September.

              by Inland on Wed Jun 13, 2007 at 11:38:49 AM PDT

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              •  maybe you missed this part (0+ / 0-)

                "Borrowing a page from George via Sun, the new Nationalist Government of Taiwan instituted its "land to the tiller program" which taxed farm land according to its value."

                This means Taiwan instituted a high land value tax.  It could work here too.  In fact, the mayor of Harrisburg, PA thinks that a two-tiered property tax system with higher rates on land (a step towards a pure land value tax) worked there too.

                •  It doesn't mean anything of the sort. (0+ / 0-)

                  Not all taxes on land are the same.  You aren't suggesting just a "high" land value tax, but something that involves taxing land but not the improvements.  If you can find that in any country in the world anywhere, I'd be surprised.

                  So please stop wasting your time comparing apples and oranges.

                  December is the new September.

                  by Inland on Wed Jun 13, 2007 at 11:48:01 AM PDT

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                  •  please explain (0+ / 0-)

                    "You aren't suggesting just a "high" land value tax, but something that involves taxing land but not the improvements."

                    The first is a subset of the second...

                    •  No. (0+ / 0-)

                      A "high land value tax" isn't a subset of taxing land but not the improvements, not in my mind.  

                      But the article you cite doesn't really say anything about HOW the land was valued, or taxed.  Besides, it doesnt' really seem to have a purpose beyond redistribution of land to agrarian tillers of the soil, which doesn't have much to do with America.  

                      I don't even know why you brought up Taiwan, but you can have one more post to show a) Taiwan has a tax system such as the one you propose and b) it had a benefit taht we would want to duplicate in America.  

                      December is the new September.

                      by Inland on Wed Jun 13, 2007 at 12:06:10 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  land value tax (0+ / 0-)

                        LVT is defined as a tax on the land (not the improvements).  So, a "high" LVT is a subset of taxing land but not the improvements.

                        Redistribution of wealth combined with more efficient use of land, including urban land, is exactly the point here in the US today.  In fact, an LVT here now would probably end up helping farmers, as it did in Taiwan.

                        I already showed you that Taiwan instituted an LVT and that it was beneficial.  Please show me your link on why Taiwan's LVT is so awful.

                        Have you read any of the links I've posted?  Have you read any of the economic theory behind this?

          •  Also (0+ / 0-)

            You might consider reading the original post and checking out some of the links there before making uninformed comments.  Why do you have such an emotional reaction to this?

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