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View Diary: Senate Push on Iraq Coming (88 comments)

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  •  The R's may never cave (5+ / 0-)

    but that may not be necessary. I'd rather the Dems stick to their principles rather than cobble together some watered-down legislation that would allow a few Repubs an escape hatch.

    I'm absolutley sure that the WH already has a withdrawl plan in place, to start in time for the '08 elections.  Victory will be declared.

    That makes it imperative that the Dems push this issue hard now, showing some backbone and repeating their message to the public. Over and over. The next few months are critical.  

    •  No, I'm pretty sure they don't. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      maryru, greenearth

      That might be an option if they were rational, but when did they ever plan anything rationally? Georgie has his ego involved in this war, and he's never going to back down. Hey, it's not like he has any skin in this next election.

      Après moi, le deluge.

      Folly is fractal: the closer you look at it, the more of it there is. - TNH

      by Canadian Reader on Sat Jul 07, 2007 at 07:08:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's about power (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DKinUT, greenearth

        and the elections.  This war has always been about that.  It's worked well for them so far.

        They obviously don't have a freakin' clue about bringing about some kind of "success" in Iraq.

        But I'm sure they've spent much time working out the political spin for next year & that will include declaring some kind of victory and making a show of decreasing troop levels.

        •  Well, we'll see. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          maryru

          But on this point, I don't think it's a they. Sock puppet though he may be, GWB is still officially The President. They can't bring the troops home without his consent. I don't think they'll get it.

          I could be wrong. Maybe they'll figure out some way to talk him into it. But though Bush loves to think of himself as a deep Machiavellian political operative (some of the time), which is why he likes to keep Rove around -- he isn't actually very subtle. Outing the CIA wife of someone who dares to criticize him is more his speed. So there, take that, ya meanie.

          They did too good a job of talking him into the war. Look at his response to the Iraq Study Group. In his simple mind, if he takes the troops out of Iraq, people will think he's doing it in response to pressure, which would make him look weak. So... gaah, no way! My bet is he'll dig his heels in and be extremely stubborn about this.

          Folly is fractal: the closer you look at it, the more of it there is. - TNH

          by Canadian Reader on Sat Jul 07, 2007 at 08:40:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  you're 100% right. the repubs WILL pull out in 08 (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DKinUT

      they just have to make it look like it was their idea, and that it was on their own terms. but they pretty much have to, to avoid electoral catastrophe.

      that's their strategy. and the only counter is to show backbone NOW.

      there are only two sides -- with the troops or with the President

      by danthrax on Sat Jul 07, 2007 at 11:48:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wrong (0+ / 0-)

        John Murtha, and many pundits were convinced there would be a drawdown before Nov 2006.

         The Republicans couldn't afford to be stubborn and defy the majority opinion. But it never happened. More bad news for repubs, after the Nov election debacle Bush still went ahead with a escalation of military forces blowing off entirely the ISG plan for disengaging .

         Now the plans from Cheney representing the neocons in charge are to push the agenda of occupation wider and deeper regardless of popularity or what citizens (regular Americans) want. For neocons:

        There is still unfinished business with Iran. There s still a "need" to have a major base and keep control of the MidEast oil fields.

        So there won't be anything new or a "withdrawal" of substance from this Administration.

         There will be cosmetic changes and stonewalling.

        All their problems now are "alQuaeda" with Iranian support.  That is a multifaceted lie, but it will do with enough repetition. Withdrawal will be "chaos and massacres", and a loss of the oil ownership for their pet corporate preferred sponsors.

        So it won't happen unless they (Cheney and his gang)are forced at the point of jail or a gun to drop their antics.

         Their plans are hopeless because it is now obvious to everyone including Americans and Iraqis the Cheney gang has no reliable Iraqi partner EXCEPT some thugs selling out for a slice of dollars (bribery) or as surrogates for Iranian Shiia. Those people are without a real future in Iraq. The rest are vying for some sort of position. None of it involves a permanent deal with the Cheney corporate gangs.

          Fareed Zakaria pointed out the obvious. The military limited success has no meaning. The USA policy has no reliable partner among any of the factions and the ones they are supporting are actually leaning towards Iran more than the USA.

        That is a huge disaster that only grows day by day.

          There is no Iraqi government except a media US sponsored PR team. There is no loyalty ,and no future for it as it is now.

        America has been stolen, your citizenship is a hollow fraud, and you have no power. What will YOU do to reverse these hurts, crimes, outrages?

        by Pete Rock on Tue Jul 10, 2007 at 07:42:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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