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View Diary: NOBODY Marched To Impeach Bill Clinton! (303 comments)

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  •  Passing Articles of Impeachment is not enough (8+ / 0-)

    I disagree with the "even if we don't convict them in the Senate, it's enough that we impeached these crooks" idea.  We've got to CONVICT them, too - and we're not there yet.

    Does anyone think Scooter Libby's trial will discourage him from future bad behavior if he gets a job with a future Republican administration?  Of course not - he suffered no real consequence.

    Bush and Cheney are trying yet another of their two-pronged attacks: do something outrageous and (1) see if you get away with it, or (2) use the Republican minority in Congress to delay punishment.

    Impeachment just now would run foul of #2: the Republicans in the Senate would vote it down, just like they did with the Iraq War bill.

    HOWEVER, the winds are shifting, folks, and it isn't too early to start framing impeachment as a patriotic duty rather than a partisan act of Bush-Haters (r).  Let the investigations roll - and maybe impeach Bush and Cheney for failing to comply with the subpoenas...

    •  Probably not the best analogy (10+ / 0-)

      Does anyone think Scooter Libby's trial will discourage him from future bad behavior if he gets a job with a future Republican administration?  Of course not - he suffered no real consequence.

      IIR, Scooter was indicted, tried AND convicted by a jury of a crime. Of course the trial alone won't have a dampening affect on his behavior. Of course not. It's the conviction, sentencing, and time spent in prison that will lead him to change his...
      Oh. Oops. Never mind.

      Congressional Dems say that history will call the Bush regime a "miserable failure." What will history say about those who sat back and let it happen? IMPEACH!

      by Lisa Lockwood on Sun Jul 08, 2007 at 02:10:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, like Elliot Abrams (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RickWn, Lisa Lockwood

        No prison, no deterrence:

        Iran-Contra Figure to Lead Democracy Efforts Abroad
        From News Services
        Thursday, February 3, 2005; Page A25

        Elliott Abrams, who pleaded guilty in 1991 to withholding information from Congress in the Iran-contra affair, was promoted to deputy national security adviser to President Bush.
        ,,,
        Abrams's 1991 plea stemmed from the congressional inquiry into the Iran-contra affair during President Ronald Reagan's administration. On Oct. 10, 1986, Abrams, then a State Department employee, testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that he did not know that Marine Lt. Col. Oliver North was directing illegal arms sales to Iran and diverting the proceeds to assist the Nicaraguan contras.

        Abrams was pardoned by Bush's father, President George H.W. Bush.

        KagroX has Something else you should read, too.

    •  A failure of the trial isn't the end (13+ / 0-)

      So many people assume that once the Senate trial fails, and they know in advance that it will, that the effect of it will be bad for the Democrats.  Why is this?  Why do they assume that standing up for the constitution will have a politically negative effect?

      There is more to this than just an impeachment and trial.  There is also an election.  This is where the people who would vote to acquit have to face their own trial.  Most people can understand the obstruction of justice.  We are getting polling of 40% in favor of impeachment without any MSM or political advocacy for it.  In fact, it is treated as unreasonable and extreme.  What would the polling be at if impeachment were treated as not only a respectable option but the option that is demanded by the actions of this administration?  

      Impeachment is only a failure because the people who have it in their power choose to make it a failure.  They are continuing their risk averse political strategy that has lost them so much political power over the last few decades.  It's time to drop that losing strategy and take up a new strategy of an assertive, proud politics.  Stop being so timid and start believing in your own principles and the constitution.  

      ...that cannot be a wise contrivance which in its operation may commit the government of a nation to the wisdom of an idiot. Thomas Paine Rights of Man

      by Rebecca on Sun Jul 08, 2007 at 02:45:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Impeachment w/o conviction = "Exhonoration" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mamamedusa

        During my lifetime, I watched Richard "Tricky Dick" Nixon go from lowest of the low to "honored senior statesman."  How?  President Ford's "nothing to see here" pardon.  No jail time, no permanent dishonor.

        Poppy Bush's pardon of Iran-Contra figures like Elliott Abrams (who now have top government jobs) took it to the next level. This pardon allowed these pigs to move back into government, where they could be committing more crimes:

        Iran-Contra Figure to Lead Democracy Efforts Abroad
        From News Services
        Thursday, February 3, 2005; Page A25

        Elliott Abrams, who pleaded guilty in 1991 to withholding information from Congress in the Iran-contra affair, was promoted to deputy national security adviser to President Bush.

        We've got to impeach AND CONVICT both Bush and Cheney - otherwise they'll just laugh, claim exhonoration, and walk away.

        As for the public, well, Keith Olbermann may be disgusted with Congress now for failing to over-ride Bush's veto of the Iraq War bill - what do you think he'll say if Congress failed to convict someone so obviously guilty of "high crimes and misdemeanors" as Deadeye Dick Cheney?  Will the voters be energized by such a partisan result and show up at the polls in droves, or will they get disgusted and not vote at all?

        The Congressional investigations are taking time, but they're wearing down Bush's defenses and opening the eyes of the folks who don't pay much attention to politics.  Even the Fox Noise viewers are getting the picture: Bush and Cheney are crooks and deserve to be impeached.

        We're getting more and more evidence of the Bush League's criminal acts every day, and fewer and fewer Republicans are willing to support these bozos.  The tipping point will probably hit after Labor Day, the "best time to roll out a new product."   Until then. lets keep up the pressure to impeach, but not call Pelosi and Reid names for holding off on talking impeachment until they've got enough evidence to convict.

        •  Really? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lisa Lockwood, mamamedusa

          Until then. lets keep up the pressure to impeach, but not call Pelosi and Reid names for holding off on talking impeachment until they've got enough evidence to convict.

          They aren't looking for evidence to impeach.  They are looking for ways to run the clock out.  They have clearly made a politically timid decision that impeachment would hurt their chances in the next election and they are staying as far away from it as they can.  Just as they capitulated on the war funding they are capitulating to the trashing of our constitution.  

          They have chosen to take the constitution off the table.  This cowardly act is worthy of harsh criticism.  In a time when our country is sliding towards fascism we don't need to have Neville Chamberlain as the role model for our politicians.  We need Winston Churchill.  Unfortunately our politicians chose Neville.  

          I am tired of being lectured to be nice to our political leaders.  They have been derelict in their duties.  Quite a few of them should be thrown out of office.  They act like they are there for a tea party.  As our country dips further into barbarism they worry about their base being angry.  What will the Republicans think?  As they clutch their pearls in horror.  

          The same R's who have declared political war against them.  The ones who have called them traitors.  The ones who have shamed this country as I never thought we could be shamed by using torture, by disappearing people, by allowing a major US city to be destroyed, by destroying our military in an illegal preemptive war that has destabilized an already precarious area of the world, by insulting our traditional allies, by enthusiastically sending us into overwhelming debt.  I could keep on going here.  What have our politicians done to stop this onslaught against the very foundation of our government?
          They have tried to return bi-partisanship and civil behavior to our nations capital.  What an amazing idea.  A movement that has shown no respect for the laws of our country.  A movement that has shown no respect for the founding document of our country, the Constitution.  A movement that has treated them with outright contempt.  A movement that has blatantly told them they would do everything they could to stop any legislation and have done that.  Our politicians still think they are doing politics as usual.  They talk about their good friend across the isle as their good friend is sticking a shiv in their back.  

          Their strategy has not worked.  Their strategy will not work.  They keep doing the same failed strategy again and again and again. Year after year after year after year after year we watch as they continue to fail.  When will they get a clue.  The clue phone has only been ringing for about a decade now.  If this were the beginning of the 90's there would be some excuse for their pathetic behavior.  There is no, absolutely no, excuse for their continuing to act as if by only being nice and friendly to the R's we can have our country back again.  

          ...that cannot be a wise contrivance which in its operation may commit the government of a nation to the wisdom of an idiot. Thomas Paine Rights of Man

          by Rebecca on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 04:48:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  btw (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lisa Lockwood, mamamedusa

          Tricky Dick became an honored statesman because no one from our side denounced him as he worked his way back into honored statesman status.  No one wanted to be rude or impolite enough to point out that he was not perhaps the best model for honored statesmanship.  

          Being acquitted doesn't have to lead to being honored.  Just look at OJ Simpson.  He is almost universally considered a murderer despite his acquittal.  All it takes if for our politicians to stop being so afraid of stating the obvious.

          ...that cannot be a wise contrivance which in its operation may commit the government of a nation to the wisdom of an idiot. Thomas Paine Rights of Man

          by Rebecca on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 05:03:53 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Re-framing impeachment as a patriotic duty (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dar Nirron

      Yes, absolutely.  Excellent, RepubAnon.

    •  Send them to the Hague n/t (0+ / 0-)

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