Skip to main content

View Diary: Making A Modern Muslim World (216 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  It doesn't have to be that way. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pandoras Box

    He's trying to reclaim bid'ah as a legitimate tool for political change in Islam.  

    "Fighting Fascism is Always Cool." -- Amsterdam Weekly, volume three, issue 18

    by Noor B on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 09:23:34 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  It seems then that he is asking two (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Persiflage

      questions:

      1.  how can Islam reclaim "permissible" bid'ah as a political tool (how can non-Muslims answer this?)
      1.  would western countries accept such a mythological country? (i need more information: what would this country look like in society, culture and laws)

      You don't know the REAL Homer! It's all burping and neglect! -- Bart Simpson

      by Pandoras Box on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 09:33:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, he is. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Persiflage, Pandoras Box

        And he's asking them in very scholarly, densely constructed ways, which is making his task more difficult.

        I think we can be of help.  Precedent is just as important in the common law tradition as in fiqh.  The thing that's necessary for us is to remember that an authentic democracy there will not be the same as ours.  What they need is a massive expansion of legal scholarship.  There are veritable mountains of material to read, reinterpret and apply.  It is going to be a monumental undertaking, and I won't see the full fruition of it in my lifetime.  (I'm 46, and expect to be around another 40-50 years if I'm lucky.)  This is the project of an entire century.

        The second question is trickier.  Personally, I would.  But then, I'm an unusual person in many ways.  Much will depend upon future economic and political developments around the globe.  I know a lot of people will not be able to envision a world in which Muslim countries are egalitarian democracies.  To that I would say, we have seen how our country has regressed over the last seven years and how much it is being reviled worldwide, something none of us ten years ago could have ever considered even a remote possibility.  So keep some faith here, stand ready to encourage, and even to help when asked, and we shall see what we shall see.  Not a very satisfactory answer, I know, but I'm only human and not a bit psychic.  ;-)  

        "Fighting Fascism is Always Cool." -- Amsterdam Weekly, volume three, issue 18

        by Noor B on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 10:35:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  well, I admit to not knowing much (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Persiflage

          about Islamic history, but it seems to me that I have read/heard that at least at one (very ancient) time, the societies of the middle east were some of, if not, THE most educated and progressive in the world and have no doubt that they could be again, if they so choose. I could easily accept any country which promoted equal and just treatment for all its citizens, but is that where Muslim societies are heading at this time?

          It's certainly not where the US is heading, but then that's part of why we're all here, raising our voices.

          You don't know the REAL Homer! It's all burping and neglect! -- Bart Simpson

          by Pandoras Box on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 11:47:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  To answer your question, (0+ / 0-)

            they stand on a precipice.  This is the major ideological battle in the ME, just as it is here.  The established power structures there are as inimical to their aims and goals as the same here is to ours.  

            I think this is also why Hakim Abdullah came here, to raise his voice alongside ours and ask for an intellectual engagement that could prove helpful and productive.  I genuinely believe we can and should make common cause with progressive Muslims in the ME, as we can and should with progressives anywhere, everywhere in the world.  Indeed, I believe we must do so, for the future of our shared world depends upon mutual successes.

            I'll be honest -- their prospects are worse than ours.  The major reason for that is oil.  The ME is sitting on top of most of the world's proven reserves.  The power structures, both theirs and ours, are predicated upon our needing that oil.  In turn, we have to be willing to overlook the horrific things these governments do to their own people just so we can tank up our SUVs.  This is the irony of our times:  despite all the rhetoric about terror, etc., the truth is both peoples' security and prosperity are being hijacked over black gold.  This is what gets Muslims in the ME so incensed.  The resource belongs to their countries, their people, and the entire people should benefit from it, not just their ruling elites.  Hakim, correct me if I'm wrong here, but my understanding is that under Islam, it is the community as a whole that is the entire basis of society, and thus the nation as a whole should benefit from its resources, not just its elite.  Appropriating a national resource is a damn good way to undermine, impoverish and oppress an entire nation, the political community.  The conservatives in the ME aren't the only culprits here.  They get lots of help from our energy industry.  And you know where that leads.

            On a side note, there is a very interesting book you might like to find, if you can.  It is Mahmood Mamdani's Good Muslim, Bad Muslim:  Islam, the USA, and the Global War Against Terror, published by Permanent Black in 2005.  This is a relatively new Indian academic publisher that is giving OUP India a run for its money.  You should be able to order it from South Asia Books.  Be prepared to be utterly disgusted.

            "Fighting Fascism is Always Cool." -- Amsterdam Weekly, volume three, issue 18

            by Noor B on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 12:40:40 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  great comment (0+ / 0-)

              thanks for the link too

              You don't know the REAL Homer! It's all burping and neglect! -- Bart Simpson

              by Pandoras Box on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 02:21:31 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Yes Correct... (0+ / 0-)

              "Hakim, correct me if I'm wrong here, but my understanding is that under Islam, it is the community as a whole that is the entire basis of society, and thus the nation as a whole should benefit from its resources, not just its elite."

              This correct, ideally.

              -- Hakim Abdullah | Chief Editor

              by Hakim Abdullah on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 09:10:51 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site