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View Diary: Making A Modern Muslim World (216 comments)

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  •  The Gate of Ijtihad (2+ / 0-)
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    Pandoras Box, Noor B

    ijtihad refers to the independent legal determination based on the Qur'an and Sunnah. This period has been closed which is why fatawa are non-binding legal edicts. The Gate of ijtihad's refers to a period when there was no more binding independent determinations on Qur'an and Sunnah which is why Sharia seems so outdated to the West, in layman's terms.

    -- Hakim Abdullah | Chief Editor

    by Hakim Abdullah on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 10:09:07 AM PDT

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    •  Thank you. (0+ / 0-)

      When was the Gate closed?

      You don't know the REAL Homer! It's all burping and neglect! -- Bart Simpson

      by Pandoras Box on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 10:12:23 AM PDT

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      •  Ow. Now you need a fiqh specialist. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Pandoras Box

        I'll be generous and say the 12th century.  That's probably much too late.

        (fiqh -- jurisprudence)

        "Fighting Fascism is Always Cool." -- Amsterdam Weekly, volume three, issue 18

        by Noor B on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 10:15:49 AM PDT

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        •  Noor Its Hard to say... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pandoras Box, Noor B

          its different for different regions and empires. As a side note, I think that one of the main agents to the present day organization of Islam as a state funded entity began when the Ottomans hired and funded the Hanafi school as its principle ideological base.

          -- Hakim Abdullah | Chief Editor

          by Hakim Abdullah on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 10:21:48 AM PDT

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          •  I've never quite understood (0+ / 0-)

            the rationale for the regionalization of the four branches of Shari'a.  I just know that it is.  What I see you saying is that some branches became more rigid as they were adopted by various empires as the official version of the law.  Am I reading you correctly?

            "Fighting Fascism is Always Cool." -- Amsterdam Weekly, volume three, issue 18

            by Noor B on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 10:45:07 AM PDT

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            •  Yes but by default... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Noor B

              If for example the Ottoman Empire assumed the Hanafi school as a state funded resource. What does that mean for the semi-autonomous jurist culture which existed with the Law Guilds originally.

              This also breaks up the social influence and authoritative powers that the jurists as a collective had established being privately funded entities. Its not so much that they became rigid by choice but the school would begin to crystallize as a function of government as opposed to its original function which was more like a university (however a university with the highest authority on law).

              -- Hakim Abdullah | Chief Editor

              by Hakim Abdullah on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 11:08:16 AM PDT

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              •  So overt political patronage was the basis (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Pandoras Box

                for the legists' cooption.  Hmmm... sounds a bit like the run-up to our US Attorneys scandal.  Except there it began centuries ago.

                "Fighting Fascism is Always Cool." -- Amsterdam Weekly, volume three, issue 18

                by Noor B on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 12:43:29 PM PDT

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                •  I think... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Noor B

                  this was the nail in the coffin, so to speak. But I am in support of the reform or redress of the Islamic legal system, obviously. I think that some knowledge of this in the implementation of new erected governments would go a long way. I think if the West showed some acceptance to this kind of reform there would be satisfaction on both the sides of Muslims as well as those who support democratically elected government in the ME.

                  But I have not been to the ME as a college graduate and much of this discussion may or may not be possible, wa allahu a'alam and God knows best.

                  -- Hakim Abdullah | Chief Editor

                  by Hakim Abdullah on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 12:49:05 PM PDT

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        •  thank you again (0+ / 0-)

          is it any wonder then, that it "seems so outdated" to the west today?

          how can a modern Muslim society take its context from laws were interpreted so long ago?

          (and, I want you to know, I would ask the same of any Christian scholar who wished to impose a Christian theocracy on any country - something I am dead-set against)

          You don't know the REAL Homer! It's all burping and neglect! -- Bart Simpson

          by Pandoras Box on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 10:23:52 AM PDT

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          •  I think most secular legal traditions have (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Pandoras Box

            their basis in the ethical considerations of the religions current when and where they were developed, but that shouldn't mean that further nonsectarian refinements are uncalled for.  Quite the opposite.

            "Fighting Fascism is Always Cool." -- Amsterdam Weekly, volume three, issue 18

            by Noor B on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 10:48:52 AM PDT

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      •  That is a difficult question to answer... (0+ / 0-)

        at the same time of the Crusades approx 10th century. To my knowledge according to Imam Al-Ghazali but this is debatable.

        -- Hakim Abdullah | Chief Editor

        by Hakim Abdullah on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 10:34:16 AM PDT

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    •  Perhaps... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pandoras Box

      Islam needs to crash the gates, too.  Reopen them...

      "I desire what is good. Therefore, everyone who does not agree with me is a traitor." King George III

      by ogre on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 10:22:51 AM PDT

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