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View Diary: Making A Modern Muslim World (216 comments)

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  •  I think he accidently (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    leftynyc, Pandoras Box, Boisepoet

    said something modestly supremacist and isn't excited about telling us why we are all inferior.

    •  Thinking that is the case since he (0+ / 0-)

      he won't reply. Maybe he just had to go...

      "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government. Always hopeful yet discontent, he knows changes aren't permanent. But change is." -Neil Peart

      by Boisepoet on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 02:23:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  maybe (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Boisepoet, bobisbob

        but he has yet (that i have seen) chosen to answer my repeated questions about how such a Muslim society would treat women, gays, and non-Muslims. - Cannot get a response...

        You don't know the REAL Homer! It's all burping and neglect! -- Bart Simpson

        by Pandoras Box on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 02:38:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  In other posts it is always a dodge too (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pandoras Box, bobisbob

          Worked closely with a guy from Jordan, really liked him personally and enjoyed spending time with him when we traveled, etc. However, it amazed me some of the attitudes and ideas he had that he claims came from his understanding and teachings of Islam. This guy was no fanatic by any means, but he related to me that 'his religion' taught him that a government ran under Islamic law was the most perfect form of government, and one that he would like to see implemented everywhere.  

          "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government. Always hopeful yet discontent, he knows changes aren't permanent. But change is." -Neil Peart

          by Boisepoet on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 03:29:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I agree (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          leftynyc, Pandoras Box

          he is very slippery about a lot of his positions.  I dont think he is in anyway liberal when it comes to say gay marriage or gay adoption, or women's rights.  he just wants us all to know that islam is awesome and that muslims are going to implement sharia law anyway.

          which is hogwash as far as I'm concerned.

        •  I was not (0+ / 0-)

          avoiding you Pandora... its a good question that deserves a complete or a nearly complete answer. I would like to find text to support my followup of this question and perhaps I will post it as a diary entry. Is that sufficient. In the meantime look into Al-Andalus. Al-Andalus was the souther portion of the Iberian Peninsula which was an egalitarian society under Islamic rule and it was a plural society and thrived. In fact it was a period when Jewish art and science was at its peak. There are periods in history where Islam ruled non-Muslims and the non-Muslims thrived. Which is a tell-tale sign of whether or not a government is good or bad, look at how the ruled classes are treated.

          -- Hakim Abdullah | Chief Editor

          by Hakim Abdullah on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 09:37:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  of course the tolerant islamic spain (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            leftynyc, Pandoras Box

            was conquered by....wait for it.....the muslims.  because they were heretics.  

            Muslim Spain, nominally subject to the rulers (caliphs) in Damascus and Baghdad, eventually broke free from any foreign subservience. Around the years 930-1000, Cordoba excelled as the most cultured city in Europe under a stable and prosperous rule, especially during the reign of Abd-al Rahman III (proclaimed Caliph in Cordoba in 929). This enlightened ruler built a sumptuous palace, Medina Azahara, named for his favorite wife Azahara. Its magnificence in ivory, jade, ebony and alabaster rivaled or exceeded that of the Taj Mahal and yet it was totally destroyed and sacked not by the “barbarian Christians” attacking from the North but by the fanatical Muslim Berber invaders in 1010. They left hardly a stone standing.

            During a few months in 1009, five different rulers succeeded each other and lost control of much of the provincial territories. A rebellion against loyalty to the Omayyid dynasty led to civil war and the descent of Muslim Spain into chaos. Within a generation, approximately 40 independent Muslim mini-kingdoms or emirates called taifas proclaimed their independence and enabled the Christian kingdoms to organize and make major advances in the reconquest of the peninsula.

            The Native Jewish population of Spain (many and perhaps most Sephardi Jews were native born converts rather than migrants), always a barometer of tolerance, quite clearly preferred the Christian North to the Muslim South from the beginning of the 11th century. Severe anti-Jewish disturbances began first in Granada and the Muslim South under the Almoravids and Almohades. The great palaces, artistic achievements and part of the sophisticated irrigation works of the Omayyids and Abbasids were largely destroyed by the new invaders. By the time of the final conquest of Granada - the last remaining Muslim kingdom in 1492, almost no Jews resided there whereas more than 225 Spanish towns had their distinctive Jewish quarters (juderías) still intact on the eve of the expulsion.

            but nice to see that atleast a nominally muslim ruler had something approaching tolerance for a certain subset of non-islamic beliefs during a short period of time in one geographic part of the world.

            that certainly is an accomplishment.

            •  bobisbod... check you facts... (0+ / 0-)

              was conquered by....wait for it.....the muslims.  because they were heretics.

              The Muslims were defeated by the Reconquista and Ferdinand. What are you talking about? There were internal struggles but that did not lead to the actual removal of Muslim rulers. It was the Reconquista that fought the Muslims there.

          •  well, if you wanted me to think you weren't (0+ / 0-)

            avoiding the question, you could have replied earlier then.  And your response is not an answer to my inquiries. But i will be patient and watch for your next diary in the hopes that you will address my specific questions

            Hakim, I would ask that please keep in mind the community you are addressing. We are quite diverse - and many members of dailykos are gay, are women, and most assuredly are nonMuslim. So, these questions go to the very heart of what so many of us consider a just society. Not that we have achieved it perfectly yet here, but that's why we are HERE, as I said before, raising our voices.

            You don't know the REAL Homer! It's all burping and neglect! -- Bart Simpson

            by Pandoras Box on Thu Jul 12, 2007 at 10:07:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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