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  •  But But But (11+ / 0-)

    People in Canada have to wait years and years to get knee replacements!  Why would we want the government involved in health cfare, when the insurance companies are doing such a great job?

    "There are no happy endings in the Bush Administration". - Randall L. Tobias

    by MadRuth on Thu Jul 12, 2007 at 05:09:49 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I'll tell you, Ruth . . . (20+ / 0-)

      This country is in freefall.

      It is collapsing around our feet.

      If a leader, who will speak clearly about the challenges facing us does not emerge, I fear we are in big trouble.

      •  Shout it from the mountain tops! (9+ / 0-)

        We are truly desperate for a leader. Not an authoritarian figure, a LEADER.

        To call the Commander in Chief detached from reality would be an insult to paranoid schizophrenics everywhere. --billmon

        by vicki on Thu Jul 12, 2007 at 05:43:33 AM PDT

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        •  That is key. WE have to make (10+ / 0-)

          the change.  Giving up all our power to some "daddy figure" and acting like electing that person will make it all better is a fudnamentally flawed approach.  In a democracy, the people have the power.  We can work with leaders, but should bow to none.  If you want change, make it.  

          "We've got to save America from this President." John Edwards 4/3/07

          by TomP on Thu Jul 12, 2007 at 05:54:15 AM PDT

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          •  I've been trying to make it change since 1980... (9+ / 0-)

            Thus far, I can't exactly claim a lot of success.  Hell, my first political involvement actually goes back to 1976.  

            I'm not saying it's hopeless, but my experiences volunteering for the likes of (Ted) Kennedy, Mondale, Paul Simon, Harkin, Bill Bradley, and Dean (not to mention Kerry as nominee) haven't been terribly positive.  I'm supporting Edwards now while waiting for Gore's decision.  I'm sure that I'll be out there for one of them in the coming months, but I won't be doing so expecting visible results.

            The chasm between what's needed and what appears to be feasible is as wide now as I've ever seen it.  I've given up on the prospect that this chasm will be eliminated--I'm just hoping it will be narrowed.

            Some men see things as they are and ask why. I see things that never were and ask why not?

            by RFK Lives on Thu Jul 12, 2007 at 06:16:39 AM PDT

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            •  I know what you mean. (9+ / 0-)

              I agree on this:

              "I've given up on the prospect that this chasm will be eliminated--I'm just hoping it will be narrowed."

              This is why we must keep hope alive.  I am 52.  Most of my life has been under the reaction, the counter revolution.  

              We cannot win if we do not try, so we try, even when it appears success in unlikely.  

              It might have been worse had we not tried.  That is hard to imagine, but we still have elections here and the possibility of using electoral means.  It might have been worse without our efforts.

              "We've got to save America from this President." John Edwards 4/3/07

              by TomP on Thu Jul 12, 2007 at 06:34:57 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  nyceve, the people do not want to hear it (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nyceve, PsychoSavannah, Noor B, Spekkio

        really.  I think a great number of people just do not want to hear the bad news and deal with it - part of the "assault on reason", part that they want to look at the world through the rose-colored-glasses of Fox Propoganda's "We're Number ONE AMERICA 4-EVER!" rah-rah partisan jingoism.

        The hard facts are a bummer.  Much easier and satisfying for many folks to "get their hate up" with Limbaugh, BillO, Coulter etc (or just absorb the banalities of the rest of the lapdog infotainment "news" like CNN) than to really have to THINK about what is going wrong and what we can really DO about it

        The big money is in the business of deluding the masses, really.  It is sad.

        •  They're madder than hell (5+ / 0-)

          but they don't know what to do about it.  They'd love to say they're not going to take it anymore, but they have kids and they want to survive and they don't see any other options.

          Give them a viable option that they recognize as a viable option, and they'll go for it.  In the meantime, they're going to talk and listen to angry talk, because they ARE madder than hell ... they just don't know what to do about it.

          •  they are mad (0+ / 0-)

            I think you are right - but BillO, Limbaugh, that crowd...maybe they are diversionists (is that even a word???) that fan people's anger but divert it from where it can do any good (like demanding big business pay its share of taxes, or keeping jobs here in the US - or creating a viable and fair health care system) and direct it to the hated "liberals", those anti-american nouveau communists that want to destroy get the drift.

            So in some part they are really mad, but Fox and friends and GOP have mastered the art of taking it and redirecting it.  And after all the rants from the RW crowd, it is just too exhausting to learn what is really going on and work to change it.

            I don't know if that made much sense.

            •  No, (0+ / 0-)

              you are exactly right.  That's what the RW ranters are doing -- grabbing a very real anger, and pointing it at their own targets.  They do this by projecting subliminal identification cues to the poor white audience -- rural-style clothes, white male middle-aged face, but above all, accent and language -- that tell their audience that they are "just one of ya'll".  That's what Bush does when he speaks, too -- fake Inland Southern accent occasionally marred by slippage into obscure New England idiom, and body language like a trucker.  Once they have identification down, they can encourage their marks to take down the target they've chosen.

    •  If you wait until you die, does that count? (9+ / 0-)

      Affordability in health care is a serious problem, whether we are talking about individuals who are uninsured or businesses paying for health care. Cost continues to be a huge problem. In a press release, Hewitt Associates estimates that HMOs will be raising premiums 14.1% for 2008 coverage. Other kinds of coverage will see similar increases or cuts in coverage.

      It's not just health insurance that's a problem. The whole health care system is out of control.

    •  BWAH-hahahahahahaaaaaaaa!!! (6+ / 0-)

      I had to wait OVER TEN YEARS in THIS country before I found an orthopedist willing to go to bat with the insurance company for me so I could FINALLY have the back surgery I needed.  And all that time, I lived in increasing pain.

      Canada has a barbaric system, my ass!!!

      "Fighting Fascism is Always Cool." -- Amsterdam Weekly, volume three, issue 18

      by Noor B on Thu Jul 12, 2007 at 07:56:49 AM PDT

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      •  You see, that part of the wait doesn't count (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        opinionated, gkn

        in the statistics. The only wait they count is when you actually schedule the surgery, how far in the future you have to do it.

        In 2000, a criminal became President. In 2004, we failed to remove him.
        American Democracy, 1787-2004, RIP

        by davewill on Thu Jul 12, 2007 at 10:23:55 AM PDT

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        •  That's so wrong on so many levels and (0+ / 0-)

          in so many ways, I can't even begin to count them.  I know you're being snarky, but I can hear some winger actually saying that in reality as if that was the end-all be-all.  

          "Fighting Fascism is Always Cool." -- Amsterdam Weekly, volume three, issue 18

          by Noor B on Thu Jul 12, 2007 at 07:35:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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